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spacemule

The Peanut Gallery
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I'm inexperienced with ropes (only use I've had for them is roping down loads of hay), but I've noticed you guys seem to spend an awful lot on ropes. Is the quality that discernible between different grades? Have you ever had breakage that you weren't expecting?
 
Pretty simple, climbing lines have to be 6000lbs breaking strength, a 1/2 line that is that strong costs more to make, thusly it costs more. Never broke one climbing, but have broken 1/2 lines pulling trees over before. Should have used a bigger rope.
 
spacemule said:
I'm inexperienced with ropes (only use I've had for them is roping down loads of hay), but I've noticed you guys seem to spend an awful lot on ropes. Is the quality that discernible between different grades? Have you ever had breakage that you weren't expecting?


There is a member or two having luck with bailing twine from Home depot, it is cheap too...
 
All climbing lines are tested to there capacity. The stuff you get at H/D should indicate on the package not suitable as a life line or something of that nature.As far as im concerned i havent seen anything at H/D that i'd consider a good tag line.Especially when i can get arborplex for 70.00 for 150'
 
DDM said:
All climbing lines are tested to there capacity. The stuff you get at H/D should indicate on the package not suitable as a life line or something of that nature.As far as im concerned i havent seen anything at H/D that i'd consider a good tag line.Especially when i can get arborplex for 70.00 for 150'


Then why do we have people that call themselves arboists allowed on this site that use HD rope and tell people about it?


treeminator said:
savings tip #13:
Home Depot sells a dark brown colored rope that can be used for trees at 1/5th the cost.
 
Freakingstang said:
Then why do we have people that call themselves arboists allowed on this site that use HD rope and tell people about it?

LOL I cant even think up a smart A$$ reply to that stupidity!
 
DDM said:
All climbing lines are tested to there capacity. The stuff you get at H/D should indicate on the package not suitable as a life line or something of that nature.As far as im concerned i havent seen anything at H/D that i'd consider a good tag line.Especially when i can get arborplex for 70.00 for 150'
That's less than $.50/foot--not as high as I thought. So, the ropes are tested. Do they hold knots any differently than cheap rope? Coil any differently?
 
spacemule said:
That's less than $.50/foot--not as high as I thought. So, the ropes are tested. Do they hold knots any differently than cheap rope? Coil any differently?
The last rope i bought from H/D to tie a fridge in the truck was so limp wristed when i was finished it wouldnt even hold in a hank to store it. I think it was nylon or something it was like 18.00 for 50' i believe. I figured i would use it as a tag line yeah right! Its probably because it had no core.
 
DDM said:
The last rope i bought from H/D to tie a fridge in the truck was so limp wristed when i was finished it wouldnt even hold in a hank to store it. I think it was nylon or something it was like 18.00 for 50' i believe. I figured i would use it as a tag line yeah right! Its probably because it had no core.

i've been using the skinny 1/4" brown rope from Home Depot for awhile now. probably have dropped hundreds of good sized trees with it. it's a bit frayed(sp?), cut up, and unraveling...but still works perfect. i think there's a general misunderstanding with rope limits, tree guys, and physics 101. by that i mean, people go out and buy ropes rate for 10,000lbs. if cut and pulled correctly using it's weight and gravity, the physics of felling a tree will use only about 200 lbs. that's why 1 worker can pull a big tree down. so here you guys are buying $300 ropes that have 20,000lb strengths only to be wasted because 200 lbs is what is really needed. i bet i can take one down with a strong fishing line if i cut the trunk the right way. wouldn't that be a neat video to post... me taking a tree down with a fishing pole. again, it's all waste money. don't you agree?
 
treeminator said:
i've been using the skinny 1/4" brown rope from Home Depot for awhile now. probably have dropped hundreds of good sized trees with it. it's a bit frayed(sp?), cut up, and unraveling...but still works perfect. i think there's a general misunderstanding with rope limits, tree guys, and physics 101. by that i mean, people go out and buy ropes rate for 10,000lbs. if cut and pulled correctly using it's weight and gravity, the physics of felling a tree will use only about 200 lbs. that's why 1 worker can pull a big tree down. so here you guys are buying $300 ropes that have 20,000lb strengths only to be wasted because 200 lbs is what is really needed. i bet i can take one down with a strong fishing line if i cut the trunk the right way. wouldn't that be a neat video to post... me taking a tree down with a fishing pole. again, it's all waste money. don't you agree?

OMFG!!!

Treeminator, I'm pretty sure the "general misunderstanding" is in your head. Don't even start w/ your physics lesson, or TreeSpyder will have to come in and chop off your tongue. We use a 10/1 safety ratio because our equipment gets shock loaded. Can you please tell me how much force a 150# limb exerts on the line after it has free fallen 10 feet? Have you ever shock loaded your climbing line after a slip of gaff out at twenty feet? Hope your "frayed, worn, cut up line can handle it. Hope even more that none of your burger flippers is under the limb that breaks the rope.

Your ego and your greed are bound to get someone hurt or killed.
 
That last remark by treeminator is so ludicrous that it doesn't even warrant a rebuttal.

The idiot is obviously a troll, 100% clueless with a near negative number IQ, or both.

His posts are good for one thing, entertainment value....other than that, along with the responses are merely a waste of bandwidth.
 
Treeminator,
Short answer NO!!! Long answer NO!!! The rope is for safety and if it doesn't meet the standards for safety it is not considered safe. I would not want to be in your shoes if anyone got hurt on one of your jobs, all they would have to do is print out a few of your trooling posts and head to court and you're dead meat. Even if you did everything right it would be hard to overcome your posts of how to do it wrong in order to maximize profits.
 
Though he may be a troll, there's a point in there. When it comes to climbing lines and other lines upon which lives depend, there can be no substitute for the best. Safety first. But for tag lines, pull lines, and rigging small branches, I don't think it's unreasonable to look for alternatives. Most of us just use retired climbing lines, which we already have decided are unsafe. I remember seeing a new brand of rope, "Black Widow" or something like that, that is narrow and not made for climbing, but still strong enough for other purposes. What if Home Depot sold a rope rated for 1,000 pounds? I'd bet someone could use it. It wouldn't be me, though...
 
ddhlakebound said:
OMFG!!!

We use a 10/1 safety ratio because our equipment gets shock loaded. Can you please tell me how much force a 150# limb exerts on the line after it has free fallen 10 feet? Have you ever shock loaded your climbing line after a slip of gaff out at twenty feet? .

ddh, even taking the troll's crap and response out of your post, there's stilll good fodder for discussions, that will be on topic with spacemule's thread starter.

so, here goes.

One, all arbo lines, be they used for rigging or life support, have low energy absorption characteristics. Made predominately of polyester (with some polypropylene in the inner makeup of some lines like Arborplex), they have limited stretch. Most stretch about 15% at 100% of rated tensile. Full static lines like Amsteel ll or Plasma stretch about 4% at break or full tensile. Full dynamic lines, like a nylon dock line, or a lead climbing rope for rock, will stretch up to 70%.

A full dynamic line is designed to, in an appx 10 meter drop, keep the force felt by the load at under 12 KN (kilonewtons) figure, or ~2650 lb. But it is an amount that is set that a human body can easily survive. Here's a link that describes fall factors http://www.outdoor-tec.com/info/cont_info.htm.

Arbo lines would way exceed those loads in a long fall. For that reason, our techniques in a tree should never subject us to a long fall. And, when rigging, good technique does not include letting a load drop onto a line for more than a few feet unless the load is let run to keep the peak loads at a reasonable level.
 
Last edited:
rbtree said:
ddh, even taking the troll's crap and response out of your post, there's stilll good fodder for discussions, that will be on topic with spacemule's thread starter.

so, here goes.

One, all arbo lines, be they used for rigging or life support, have low energy absorption characteristics. Made predominately of polyester (with some polypropylene in the inner makeup of some lines like Arborplex), they have limited stretch. Most stretch about 15% at 100% of rated tensile. Full static lines like Amsteel ll or Plasma stretch about 4% at break or full tensile. Full dynamic lines, like a nylon dock line, or a lead climbing rope for rock, will stretch up to 70%.

A full dynamic line is designed to, in an appx 10 meter drop, keep the force felt by the load at under 12 KN (kilonewtons) figure, or ~2650 lb. But it is an amount that is set that a human body can easily survive. Here's a link that describes fall factors http://www.outdoor-tec.com/info/cont_info.htm.

Arbo lines would way exceed those loads in a long fall. For that reason, our techniques in a tree should never subject us to a long fall. And, when rigging, good technique does not include letting a load drop onto a line for more than a few feet unless the load is let run to keep the peak loads at a reasonable level.

Great answer Roger!
 
spacemule said:
I'm inexperienced with ropes (only use I've had for them is roping down loads of hay), but I've noticed you guys seem to spend an awful lot on ropes. Is the quality that discernible between different grades? Have you ever had breakage that you weren't expecting?
Yeah, I spend alot on climbing lines but that is because I have to trust my LIFE to them. How much is your life worth?
 
beowulf343 said:
Yeah, I spend alot on climbing lines but that is because I have to trust my LIFE to them. How much is your life worth?
Point taken, but, did you realize the piston in the brake caliper on your car is a piece of rubber about the size but half the height of a bottle cap lid? You trust your life every day to cheap parts. That wasn't my question. I was asking about rope quality.
 
Clearance,

in the US arbo ropes that are used for life support need to have 5,400# breaking strength AND be deemed fit for treework by the manufacturer. things might be different in Canada/BC.

Considering the work that ropes are expected to do for us they are the cheapest tool that we own. I've never balked at the cost of ropes. Do the math on the cost and life expectancy. then cost-out a beer or cigarette. Hmmm...what's expensive?

Thanks for taking the time to write out the replies Roger. Trolls need to be herded back under the bridge every once in a while :)
 
Tom,
Good point, on herding trolls,
This is getting out of hand, that someone would support the use of cheap ropes, not rated for lifeline capability, and promote this kind of garbage gets a little under my skin.

At one time I tried an inferior rope, my wife worked as my groundsperson at the time, while lowering a limb it snapped, and came close to killing her. (Although there have been several times I have regretted missing her.) If it would have made direct impact it would have, but even the bounce bruised her badly.

You can cut costs in alot of areas, but never,,NEVER..Ropes. Total absolute insanity to try and save a dime on that end.
 
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