save this oak....PLEASE!

[che]

This is a tree I started from an acorn from my home just outside Minneapolis....about eleven years ago when I had just moved into this house.

My brother-in-law came over today and told me he backed into it.

The wound goes around almost half way.... What should I do.....treat it in anyway....or get out the Jonsered?

Thanks for any advice,
Che

<img src="http://www.maysacres.com/mn_oak_damage.jpg">

 

[underwor]

Che,

Remove any loose bark with a sharp knife or chisel, but no more than that, let it dry out and water the tree well. Fertilizing a stressed tree is not suggested. In the long growing seasons of the south you should get coverage in a few short years. Bur oak is very adaptable (am I right on the species?). It will survive. You might remove the grass for a couple of feet around it and mulch with wood chips, but that is all it will need besides time.

From the hills of North Dakota, but formerly from Southern Illinos,

Bob Underwood

 

[che]

Thanks Bob. I didn't think there was hope with so much of the outer layers removed. I will do as you suggest. (I removed my whining....felt good to unload...but unneccessary)

Che

Here are the leaves. I think it is a bur oak.

 

[che]

Hi Brian,

I really don't know what he hit it with. After he told me he hit MY TREE....everything went blank. I just heard some crazy Yankee woman saying a word that no gentle Southern woman would ever say....over....and over...and over again. I think I heard him say 'trailer hitch'....but I'm not sure.

The tree itself is a baby (11 yr oak)....only 3" wide, the wound is about 9" long. I took off what I could and smoothed the chopped surface in the center. The side bark is fairly tightly connected to the inner tissues, but the top and bottom are a bit looser. I'm not sure how to take any more off without damaging the wood beneath.

(Click on the image to see a larger image)
<a href="http://www.maysacres.com/mn_oak_damage_repair.jpg"><img src="http://www.maysacres.com/mn_oak_damage_repair_sm.jpg" alt="click here for larger image"></a>

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by che

My brother-in-law came over today and told me he backed into it.

The wound goes around almost half way.... What should I do.....treat it in anyway....or get out the Jonsered?

Getting out the Jonsered seems a bit harsh, all he did was back into your tree.

 

[lhampton]

We have had recomendations from a local Consulting Arborist concerning injuries similar to that. He has suggested wrapping the area with plastic, then a couple of layers of burlap, the sooner the better.

I have heard from others that recent research seems to agree that in some instances the plastic covering will help the tree to compartmentalize more quickly. Don't have the first hand experience to know myself. What do you all think?

Louie Hampton

 

[Stumper]

I think that the plastic and burlap treatment may have merit when trying to reattach the damaged bark. I don't think that I would plastic wrap the area with the bark excised.( There are 2 working theories for living tissue for both animals and plants-one is to let the wound "breathe" the other is to isolate a sanitized wound from all air contact. Both work on animal tissues (like mine) probably both will work on plants-but I know that the tree has excellent odds for recovery without sealing things and running the risk of creating a nice environment for fungal growth.)

Che, you did a nice job of excising the damaged bark. You mentioned that there is some looseness top and bottom. If youwill taper the wound on the ends it will close faster/with less chance of dieback in the bark. You want a shape something like this ^ or this V on the ends but somewhat curved rather than a hard angle.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm going to do something out of character for me, disagree with the previous poster.

The plastic wrap idea is fairly new and the research is limited, but the work has shown that trunk wounds seem to grow new tissue faster in the wound area when covered with plastic. One theory I heard mentioned was that a plant sends certain hormones to the site of an injury to signal to the tree to start the healing, one such hormone is ethylene, the plastic could keep the ethylene from evaporating off into the air and keep it contained in and around the injury.
The burlap is installed over the plastic to keep the sun from beating down on it and making a solar oven.
The plastic is tighly wraped and held in place with tape as soon as possible, and left for a couple months.

As far as excising the wound, I'm surprised arborist still recommend it. My thought is that we want to save as much undamaged tissue as we can, even a very small section will make a big difference. By cutting we will surely remove some good tissue, thus further injuring the tree. Old school thinking suggested we make the excise cut in the shape of a football standing vertically, slightly larger than the injury. Newer thinking reconmmends we carefully scribe around the injury, no matter what shape it is. I believe the next recomendation, and the one I currantly make when asked about these types of injuries, is to leave it alone for a couple of years and then remove what really loose and dead tissue that falls off when you poke at it with your finger.

If you have loose sections of bark dangleing there and tightly wrap plastic around the injury, some of that loose bark you normally would have excised might reattach, thereby reducing the size of the injury. The plastic wrap serving two functions, applying pressure to the loose bark to aid in bark reattachment, and increasing hormone levels at the injury site.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Che,

The pic of the leaves is fantastic! Wonderful color. Let your tree know that it's cousins up here are only breaking bud and the leaves are mouse-ear size.

Leave the Jonny in the shed, getting blood on it is really messy and stinky.

Plastic wrap is my advice. don't point the wound. That has been shown to lead to cracks later on in the tree's life.

Tom

 

[che]

I guess I didn't hide my...uh...'displeasure' well enough. I never meant to indicate I would use the Jonsered on my dear brother-in-law. I <i>WAS</i> think about getting out the Dolmar for that purpose....but luckily.....didn't act on it.

I'm a bit confused now what to do. I probably either need more feedback, or some reference sites or something. I was under the impression that keeping a cut open was the way to go now, I threw away all that thick black spray paint sealer stuff years ago.

I'll watch the thread for a while, sounds like the plastic wrap may be helpful. What kind of time frame am I working with? it's been at least a day or two since this happened (I didn't get that part either)...to be effective does it need to be done while the wound is 'fresh'?

Thank-you all so much. Knowing that there is at least a chance is comforting. I suppose I can just start another one....or two...or three....and then hang out for another decade.

Che

 

[lhampton]

I think that ideally, you would have wanted to get the plastic on already, however I still think that it is worth a try. I would uncover and check periodically, maybe once a month. See how it progresses, and check for any disease or pest problems.

If you decide to go the plastic route, keep us updated as to how it goes. This is still new to a lot of us, I at least, could learn from your experience with it.

Best of luck.

Louie Hampton

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I agree. Wrap it now in plastic, check it once every two weeks, and remove it at about two months.

The same theropeutic measures could be applied to your brother-in-law.

 

[che]

That's a thought.

I've done a bit of searching...the information I'm finding is fairly dated, but I could certainly give it a try.

Sounds like I should use plain old 4mil plastic...got plenty. I don't have burlap, but I think they sell something similar in rolls to protect trees (still breathes though) at a local xmart. I'll do a pictorial of the progress as long as I can come here to cry if it doesn't work.

Che

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Just use some sandwich wrap. A few wraps around the trunk, is all. There is no need for burlap, use an old tee shirt.
If you are low on tee shirts, the lifeless body of your brother-in-law would shade the spot too, if nailed up to the tree in just the right spot.

 

[che]

I had to leave early today, but went out first and put a patch of plastic on the wound and secured it with some cut-off panty hose (stuff is great in the garden, not so fun to wear....although it's good under waders in a cold trout stream, I hear)

I'll check it and make sure it stays secure, and report back in a while.

Mike....he's a good guy....just not quite observant I guess. My husband tried to console me with the fact that HE'D almost hit it before too. I 'gently' reminded him that the tree was there before they started parking the *&^#$ equipment over there. Maybe it's time for a fence around it.

Che

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Get a whol roll of kitchen wrap, you want a near air tight seal on the cover. Not just a piece coveing the wound up.

The idea is to trap this volitile gas in the wound area for as long as possible.

This is the gas that helps you ripen fruit by putting a riper one in a paper bag with the greener stuff. C2H4

 

[che]

I thought by holding the plastic against the wound, overlapping by an inch or two on all sides, and held securely with a form fitting, stretchy material it would create a little pocket of ethylene. Thinking on the run, I wondered if it would be better to keep the plastic off the healthy bark...if you all think it better to wrap the WHOLE trunk...I can do that. This time I'll ASK what I'm wondering: you mean SARAN WRAP?

I'll fix the wrap in the morning.

Thanks, Che

 

[Stumper]

Mike and Tom, Thanks for disagreeing with me so politely. I freely admit that I haven't read the research you are talking about. I will bow to your greater knowledge.
Regarding pointing/exciseing: In my experience,wounds which are not excised, frequently experience bark dieback far above and below the original wound. Wounds that are excised and gently "pointed" removing the minimum of tissue have begun closure immediately without greater bark loss. Perhaps the plastic wrap is going to make all of this moot.

If we discover better ways to treat wounds that is a very good thing.

Che, even with my old techniques I would expect your tree to recover. The tree's ability to continue to transport nutrients et al.. despite a large wound is truly amazing.:angel:

 

[che]

Doesn't look good.......IMHO

I unwrapped it this morning to check. Underneath the Saran was alot of moisture, a few pupae, some things that looked like meal worms, a bug that looked like an earwig, and a few ants....along with some fungus/mold.

From what I understand, the whole object was to hold in the ethylene to increase healing...but with a rough barked tree like this...I don't know that it is possible without allowing the neat little nooks and crannies these tiny wildlife obviously like. The rain also fill it up....so the area has also been kept quite moist this entire time.

Here's some quick pictures....

Saran covering

wound uncovered #1

wound uncovered #2

Che

 

[mquinn]

che,

i didn't get to this thread until now. as i was reading, i was feeling skeptical of the plastic wrap - sorry i didn't weigh in earlier.

i think the idea about keeping the ethelyne at hand may have been a good idea when thinking about it's role and value, but the method of doing so (plastic wrap) has too much of a negative risk value in my view.

i can't comment on the shape of the cuts you want to make - have no experience there.

the idea of not cutting off bark, but keeping it in contact with the trunk until the tree itself has obviously finished with any attempt to reattach makes a good deal of sense to me, but i wouldn't have done it with plastic wrap.

now that you've taken the wrap off, you see what i would have expected you to see. on the other hand, now that i'm thinking about it, maybe - MAYBE - one layer would have worked better - it may have let ethelyne dissipate, but it would have slowed it down, and it wouldn't have created such a nice environment for other undesirable organisms. until i had some experiments with that, though, i'd still be skeptical.

i'd probably have chosen just to shuffle the loose bark around until it was back as close as possible to its original position and strap it down.

the borer larvae you are seeing were already in your tree - they just came around to the wound area after you wrapped the tree.

microorganisms in the air were already settling on the wound when you wrapped it, too, and then got a great growth chamber in which to develop.

i'd leave that plastic off. how about washing the wound now with a dilute bleach solution and just leaving it alone?

my 2 cents.

michele quinn


p.s. really sorry about your tree. i understand what you're saying about your reaction! have blacked out a bit myself under similar stress. what you say and what you hear at those times just sort of takes place in another world, doesn't it?

really sorry about your tree. but don't give up on it.

p.s. the presence of five large borers in a tree that size is of a good deal of concern to me. they may not be the only ones, either. they suggest a stressed condition of the tree even before the injury. if there's equipment around it, it's possible that the soil over the roots is being compacted. at any rate, something else is stressing the tree, and you will probably want to correct that problem if you want the tree to recover from the injury and the pest infestation, and do well in the future.

m