save this oak....PLEASE!

[John Paul Sanborn]

I would not have scribed the bark off either, but the deed was done so i did not say anything.

IMO the this all works best if everything is replaced ASAP. While the meristem is till wet and viable. I have done it with tackas and staples, sans plastic, but may try the plastic next time I coame across an fresh wound.

From a longterm point of view, it may be best to get another tree to start beside this one ( farther back) incase decay dose cause risk issues.

 

[che]

using the image/info on this webpage as a guidetree anatomy I'm assuming that the cambium/phloem (is this the 'meristem' you're talking about John?) is the tissue I'm interested in saving.

The loose bark that should have possibly been saved would only have mattered along the edges of the wound? Most had been ripped off to start with.

The cambium layer that was pulled off slightly may have been able to reattach if held tightly onto the tree? I guess what worried me more was the invitation to 'critters' that an open pocket would make. Here are some making use of their new 'feeding trough':

<img src="http://www.maysacres.com/mn_oak_bugz2.jpg">

I won't be putting another tree in this spot. Years after this planting I found out that most of this area is on a rock shelf. During one of the years of drought, several areas in our 'yard' died off completely, turns out these areas all have very shallow soil, large rock ledges are within half a foot of the soil line! I thought it another 'sign' that this 'tree from home' was destined to be here as it turned out to be planted in the space between two such ledges. Pure luck or fate. Trucks, tractors, and an occasional cattle trailer are used in this area, but not usually this close to my tree. The rock ledges are helpful in this respect as the area doesn't stay muddy.

Guess I'll do some reading, try to figure out 'trees' and get a better feel for them, if it were green stemmed and had a large hemerocallis bloom at the end, I'd understand more.

Thank-you for your suggestions....

Che

 

[mquinn]

che,

understand your concern about 'critters'. to put your mind at ease about these particular ones, the three on the right are not there to work on your tree. they're there because of the leaking cell contents and the extra moisture provided by the plastic wrap. (i.e., they're not plant pests.) i'm not sure what that first one is. it looks like a clearwing borer of some sort. and if so, then those were probably the larvae of the same species that you found under the plastic wrap. even if it is a borer, however, the adult is not directly harming the tree, but will lay eggs and the larvae will bore their way in, doing the damage. in this case, however, even if your tree had not been wounded, that would be happening, because it was already infested with borers.

whether to cover or treat any wound is not really a matter of yes or no, even though you'll find plenty of writers and tree care specialists to proclaim it is....it's easier to deal with that way than to go through all the variables involved, and so too often recommendations get made in the form of yes or no. it's more a matter of knowing the particular plant, the possible pests, the possible seriousness of impact the pests might have, the trade-offs between treating and not treating, the time of year, the stage of growth of the plant, etc. etc.

personally, from the pictures (nice, by the way), i don't think you would have made a whole lot of difference in this case if you left the loosened bark attached or cut it off. i do think the nice growth chamber the plastic provided was problematic. i'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has had many experiences using that idea.

best wishes to you and tree.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Meristem the fine layer of cells from which the tree grows. It is found in buds and cambium and root tips...

when the treee is wounded the meristematic tissue "pushes" out a thinf film of fast growing cells called callus, which is undifferentiated tissue which becimes the wound wood.

Thsi also is what allows grafting to take place, because the two fresh cuts of the root stcok and the scion will bind togeter and close the wound formed for the mating.

So in effect, by placing the damaged bark back on the wood, gaining as much contact as possible, we are allowing the tree to graft the bark back on. Not all will be sucsessfull, some will die back, but there will be less area were woundwood generation is needed and less places were there will be exposed structural material.

 

[che]

I wasn't too worried about these guys...I thought it was a neat picture, lined up like cattle at a feed trough. There were four different bugz there....all different, the flies were of two different types, but I don't think that's clear in the picture. Here's the strange one, the reason I RAN back to the house and got the camera.

<img src="http://www.maysacres.com/mn_oak_strange_bug.jpg">

I guess my concerns were more based on the fact that everytime I pull off a piece of bark in the woods (dead trees, though) they are always teaming with wildlife.

Thanks for the explanation of the growing tissues, John. While I'm somewhat aware of the apical meristems in plants I really don't have a clue about the layers in a tree trunk. I understand now that if there was fresh tissue it would have been good to get them together somehow.....and it leaves me wondering if you can do this with a piece of bark from another tree (same species?) with the layer of meristem tissue and layer it onto a large wound like this. Pretty amazing either way.

Many years ago, my grandfather was written up in the Rockford newspaper (when my scanner works I'll post it) for his apple tree bearing five different kinds of apples.....seems like I should know more about this subject....although I do have his grafting knife.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Agree with use of plastic wrap to press detached-but-connected bark back o and to trap ethylene. Third reason is to hold in moisture which yes is a better habitat for some decay fungi but also allows scraps of meristematic tissue that are attached not to the bark but to the wood unseen to grow, "sealing" the wound.

Next time I see it I'll snap a pic. It's not that unusual.

Agree w mquinn that sealant use has many variables to consider. I use orange shellac as a base, and experimentally apply it where I believe decay will easily outrace CODIT. See Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees by Schwarze, Engels and Mattheck. Life's an experiment, we're all still learning, and as Shigo put it "Rules are too absolute for mother nature".

That striped bug with the orange head is A TRIP!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by che
.....and it leaves me wondering if you can do this with a piece of bark from another tree (same species?) with the layer of meristem tissue and layer it onto a large wound like this.

Yes, it is called "bridge grafting", I have cut branches and used the bark for transplant a few times. Deer rubs and a weed whacker incident.

Don't know if such a big section would work though.

 

[che]

I was out near this tree with a camera yesterday and thought I'd post an 'after' picture. It's looking much better.

I peeked underneath the upper and lower cuts, and there is similar type of new healing growth. Everything is firm, and the foliage looks good.

I'll continue keeping my fingers crossed, thanks for all advice and support.

Che

yesterday's picture of wound:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'd say it's starting to close fast.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Thanks for the update, Che.
I'd say it's closing really fast. We don't see that kind of growth up here in two or three years.
Remember to keep the stresses on the tree at a minumum, water during drought, keep your brother-in-law away, carefully replace turfgrass under the tree with compost and mulch, ect.
Keep us up dated!

 

[SilverBlue]

The sides are doing great but it looks like the top and bottom would have benefited from pointing as Stumper suggested.

As for as the plastic suggestion, I can’t see any benefit’s what so ever at least for a very brief period after the initial wounding, since ethylene also accelerates the decay /ripening process. Plastic (some types) was probably recommended because it off gasses ethylene itself not because it will seal it in.

It looks like the tree still has its vigor, try using Ascophyllum nodosum kelp extract if you would like to enhance the growth and healing process.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Silverblue,
There have been several studies that suggest the plastic wrap can help. I don't make this stuff up (usually).
Here's one from the J.O.A.:
http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/JofA/abstracts/joasep96.html#Polyethylene