Stihl, your hack, jerry rig tfix for problem doesnt work. The saw can not be adjusted for differant atmospheric conditions. One jet will not run 100% all the time It is impossible so even if it leaves you door runnign good it wont for long. BTW my dealer knows the fixed jet carb is a POS and gave me a old style carb for mine. He doesnt try to jerry rig new saws into runing properly.
Saw Manufacturer's Screwup of the Year!!!
- Thread starter rahtreelimbs
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One thing that I can't figure out. Two of my Shindaiwa saws ( 360 & 488 ) came with fixed jets, no way to adjust them. Neither of them have the carb issues that the Stihls do. I did change out the carb of the 488 to a full adjustable carb just so I would have the option to adjust it. The saw ran well with the fixed jet though.
Stihltech sounds like he would be a unique individual if he operated in my area, and I applaud him for having a can-do personal attitude and a customer satisfaction driven professional ethic. Even while he adapts to corporate bandaid engineering forced by feel good environmentalism. Technology will make for better small engines, no question. But now we are back in an equivalent of the 1980 automotive engine situation, so to speak. With 1960s engine blocks and their heavy emissions, trying to mitigate it with a mess of unreliable vacuum pumps, actuated valves and hoses. With the onboard computer processor still around the corner, just an engineer's dream to free us from that problematic bridge technology.
If an engine receives no "metal" upgrades, but intentional lean running conditions and elevated restrictive exhaust temperatures cause temperatures in the ring belt to rise beyond original design, there is likely going to be a reduction in service life. (Quote from Stihl 2003: "STIHL 2-cycle oils are formulated to meet the high temperatures and lean running conditions of CARB certified engines." Is that not a de facto admission that the balance between regulation, performance, and service life is admittedly off?)
My local Stihl guys, and every single one of them is otherwise a great person to deal with, hold the same line in the sand and recite the same well practiced script - "there is nothing wrong with that saw", "these fixed carbs are the best I've ever seen in 30 years", "your guys must not know how to _________ " (fill in the blank: clean, start, maintain, fuel, carry, run, sharpen, hold, look at) that saw", none of which are true.
The dealers know where their bread is buttered, and have been coached how best to cover their master's tracks. Primarily though, they are simply terrified to do anything to a carburetor to make it run well. I guess I don't hold this against them, since I don't sign their paychecks and I am the rare, picky, annoying guy who actually knows how a saw should run, and will attempt to get things done correctly.
I love my classic machines built for performance alone. But I do agree that enginneering will catch up with the new green paradigm for machines, and they will be all the better for it, efficient and reliable. Just in time for the Gandhi-esque, anti-engine, anti-tree-destruction crowd to finally cry and whine their way to the banning of such activities completely.
If an engine receives no "metal" upgrades, but intentional lean running conditions and elevated restrictive exhaust temperatures cause temperatures in the ring belt to rise beyond original design, there is likely going to be a reduction in service life. (Quote from Stihl 2003: "STIHL 2-cycle oils are formulated to meet the high temperatures and lean running conditions of CARB certified engines." Is that not a de facto admission that the balance between regulation, performance, and service life is admittedly off?)
My local Stihl guys, and every single one of them is otherwise a great person to deal with, hold the same line in the sand and recite the same well practiced script - "there is nothing wrong with that saw", "these fixed carbs are the best I've ever seen in 30 years", "your guys must not know how to _________ " (fill in the blank: clean, start, maintain, fuel, carry, run, sharpen, hold, look at) that saw", none of which are true.
The dealers know where their bread is buttered, and have been coached how best to cover their master's tracks. Primarily though, they are simply terrified to do anything to a carburetor to make it run well. I guess I don't hold this against them, since I don't sign their paychecks and I am the rare, picky, annoying guy who actually knows how a saw should run, and will attempt to get things done correctly.
I love my classic machines built for performance alone. But I do agree that enginneering will catch up with the new green paradigm for machines, and they will be all the better for it, efficient and reliable. Just in time for the Gandhi-esque, anti-engine, anti-tree-destruction crowd to finally cry and whine their way to the banning of such activities completely.
I bought a 056s in about 1985 for $450. Powerwise the equivalent saw today is a 066. It costs twice as much. If we follow your logic on emission compliant vehicles, a 1966 corvette was in the $5,000 range. The new one is about $50,000. I know there is an inflation factor but that technology is going to cost us. I for one don't want to pay $2,500 for a saw. Just think someday the muscle saw ad may say. Classic 1995 Stihl 066, not changed from factory specs in any way and only 3 cords of wood cut in its lifetime. Super price today- $3,250. Mike 
Jets
They work for my customers in my area all the time. I am spending too much time on this site.
They work for my customers in my area all the time. I am spending too much time on this site.
fish
If I only had Fish's wit to put him in his place. Driving a school bus you would think I would have thicker skin by now.
One question:
How many saws did you repair this year Mr Walker?
If I only had Fish's wit to put him in his place. Driving a school bus you would think I would have thicker skin by now.
One question:
How many saws did you repair this year Mr Walker?
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ben rides both sides of this fence, I think, as he reports from time to time on new technology and coming attractions. He had a bad experience with a saw, I suppose, and now nothing will persuade him that the 026 is still a solid unit.
I don't have enough experience with fixed-jet stuff yet; I have a couple of saws with limiters on them and haven't yet been forced to overcome them. One saw did start to sound like it was starving under certain conditions, but a carb kit and new fuel filter seemed like it solved the problem. Opening up the main jet would have just been a temporary fix, I think.
I will admit that I do look at the thermometer...when it's cold out I close up the flapper to get carb heat, and just accept that the saw won't run good for a minute or two until it gets warm. Not a big deal on modern saws. I have a couple of older models that just flat were worthless in really cold weather.
I'm not a real big fan of the EPA regs, as they are a band-aid fix for what I consider a minor problem....all the chainsaws in N. America together probably couldn't equal the pollution of, say, New Jersey's autos for an equal amount of time. But we're stuck with it, so guys like Stihltech figure out how to work with it and get acceptable results. Hooray for that!
Maybe instead of calling names and pi$$ing each other off...
I don't have enough experience with fixed-jet stuff yet; I have a couple of saws with limiters on them and haven't yet been forced to overcome them. One saw did start to sound like it was starving under certain conditions, but a carb kit and new fuel filter seemed like it solved the problem. Opening up the main jet would have just been a temporary fix, I think.
I will admit that I do look at the thermometer...when it's cold out I close up the flapper to get carb heat, and just accept that the saw won't run good for a minute or two until it gets warm. Not a big deal on modern saws. I have a couple of older models that just flat were worthless in really cold weather.
I'm not a real big fan of the EPA regs, as they are a band-aid fix for what I consider a minor problem....all the chainsaws in N. America together probably couldn't equal the pollution of, say, New Jersey's autos for an equal amount of time. But we're stuck with it, so guys like Stihltech figure out how to work with it and get acceptable results. Hooray for that!
Maybe instead of calling names and pi$$ing each other off...
Fish
Tree Freak
I have your midrange jet right here!
treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
the he11 with carbs, I hate the new Stihl oil caps.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Originally posted by treeslayer
.... I hate the new Stihl oil caps.
What? Whats wrong with them???
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10563&highlight=New+Caps
treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
I really should'nt complain, they lock down every other time.
Plus my right leg is now waterproof from all the bar oil applications!
Plus my right leg is now waterproof from all the bar oil applications!
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Originally posted by treeslayer
I really should'nt complain, they lock down every other time.
ROTFLMAO!!!
range
I've always felt a wide range is better.
I've always felt a wide range is better.
Pacific
ArboristSite Operative
I have been doing some falling with my MS260 its the first job I have done where I have used nothing but the 260 and I'am impressed with the saw. I'am running a 20" bar it works great for falling the 14" and smaller diameter fir and cedar trees I'am dropping. The saw works great for limbing those branch infested cedar trees the saw is light and fast.
When I start getting into the larger 20" and larger diameter trees I will use the 046 Magnum.
I'am happy I bought the 260 its a heck of allot better than the Jonsered it replaced.
When I start getting into the larger 20" and larger diameter trees I will use the 046 Magnum.
I'am happy I bought the 260 its a heck of allot better than the Jonsered it replaced.
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi Pacific
Good to see you back. I agree that the 260 is a great little saw and more than cacapable in the conditions that you describe. I believe that a smaller saw with decent power is going to be more productive than a heavier, more powerful saw in small diameter wood. Funny how some others can`t begin to fathom this, just different strokes for different folks I guess.
Russ
Good to see you back. I agree that the 260 is a great little saw and more than cacapable in the conditions that you describe. I believe that a smaller saw with decent power is going to be more productive than a heavier, more powerful saw in small diameter wood. Funny how some others can`t begin to fathom this, just different strokes for different folks I guess.
Russ
Jack Russell
ArboristSite Operative
Big Daddy
We have been talking about the big change coming Polluting!
That company were ahead Big Brother standers and time limits
Now it is here- live with it. Big Daddy made the rules. (goverment)
We all are hard to adjust to change. Remenber Yesterday is the past--Today is the present make the best off it the change has gone into effect--Tomorrow is the future which we hope thing will get better
We have been talking about the big change coming Polluting!
That company were ahead Big Brother standers and time limits
Now it is here- live with it. Big Daddy made the rules. (goverment)
We all are hard to adjust to change. Remenber Yesterday is the past--Today is the present make the best off it the change has gone into effect--Tomorrow is the future which we hope thing will get better
treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can"t fathom how can a small saw be more productive than say my 046 or 066. ( in 6" wood maybe), but in anything 12" or bigger, whole trees, especially with multiple trees, horsepower rules, period.
we limb with an 026 or 036, and fell with the 044 or 046, and buck with the 066's, 088 or 3120 PP.
I want to get done and go away.
But thats how I do it, different strokes for different folks.
we limb with an 026 or 036, and fell with the 044 or 046, and buck with the 066's, 088 or 3120 PP.
I want to get done and go away.
But thats how I do it, different strokes for different folks.
TS
Not trying to be a smart A, but why switch to a larger saw for bucking after you have already fell the tree?
John
Not trying to be a smart A, but why switch to a larger saw for bucking after you have already fell the tree?
John
Pacific
ArboristSite Operative
Why use a large saw to cut small wood the place where I'am cutting is rough lots of rocks to trip on with loose rocks that roll under your feet. I already took a good spill by stepping on a loose rock I was glad I didn't have my 46 in my hands.
The other benefit of running the smaller saw is the chain doesn't take as long to sharpen
I have tagged a few hidden rocks while limbing its pretty hard to avoid when there are rocks covered by Salal bush that you don't know that are there. Kinda hurts to see that happen to the chain on my 46 running a 28" bar. The chain for my 46 is costs 50 dollars compared to 20 dollars for 80 driver 325 chain for the 260.
The other benefit of running the smaller saw is the chain doesn't take as long to sharpen
I have tagged a few hidden rocks while limbing its pretty hard to avoid when there are rocks covered by Salal bush that you don't know that are there. Kinda hurts to see that happen to the chain on my 46 running a 28" bar. The chain for my 46 is costs 50 dollars compared to 20 dollars for 80 driver 325 chain for the 260.
Tony Snyder
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dan seems to have his thinking on saw size usage about in line from what most loggers do around here. (biggest saw for bucking)
We are in hardwood, so power requirements differ. There are some who use 460/066 combinations, and some more like 59cc,85cc,95cc combinations. But generally 77 to 85 cc is the felling saw size range. (24 inch bars predominate)
Of course I realize this will vary considerable in other geografical areas.
We are in hardwood, so power requirements differ. There are some who use 460/066 combinations, and some more like 59cc,85cc,95cc combinations. But generally 77 to 85 cc is the felling saw size range. (24 inch bars predominate)
Of course I realize this will vary considerable in other geografical areas.
