Saw purchase advice

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Originally posted by tundraotto


stihl has good saws too but they are for rich people and they dont cut as fast.


Ok so they cost a bit more, but you get what you pay for. If anything I am not rich (very poor college student). I have never seen such disdain or zealotry for a particular name brand. When it comes to chainsaws you’re on one side or the other I guess. Someday tundratto you will see the light and we will welcome you into the Stihl family.

Confused
 
Howdy,

If you guys get to wondering why some saws of smaller displacement out cut larger units, you may be on the edge of discovering some important truths. One of which is most saws these days develope their torgue peak at too high of RPM, for the sawchain to be able to take advantage of it!

This is why some of those old reed valve dogs of yesteryear outcut the new racehorses, rather profoundly. The reedvalve engine developed it's torgue peak in the same band as the peak effeciency of the sawchain with which they were equipped.

This torgue peak thing is tricky with piston ported engines. Some will have considerably better useable output than others, and the results you get can be quite surprising.

The figures for sawchain are: The lowest chain speed practical is 1,700 sq.Ft/sec. The highest is 3,500 sq.Ft/sec. Outside of this band things all work against total effeciency. You can push the envelop by throwing more hp. at it, which is what the contest guys do. Incidently the low end is the speed of a slow ratio geardrive chainsaw, and the upper end usually works out to be around 8,000RPM depending on sprocket size (pitch and tooth count) for direct drive.

Reed valve engines used to prefer to cut around 6,500 RPM, which was just fine with the sawchain.
This is a might slow for modern saws, and if pulled down this much, they really fall off their torgue curve.

Every unit has it's prefered cutting speed, and this does not follow the dyno data. You just learn it by trial and error, and it is amazing how consistant you cut after that.

The complex situation with the sawchain is caused by the necessity for the cutters to work in and out of the wood, very unlike the teeth on a bandsaw or circular saw. Too high of speed, and this cutting action gets increasingly ineffecient, with sawchain, where-as the high speed can be beneficial for the mill saw. That's a whole different world of cutting theory.

Many of the Harvester machines (especially the ones from Sweden) use chain speeds above 4,000 sq.Ft/sec. This results in some amazing chain failure scenarios, but very fast cuts due to the massive hp. available. This is an example of throwing power at the problem and ???? the consequences.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
Oops!

I see I said sq.ft/sec. that should be simply ft./sec chain speed along the guide bar.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
lol - touchy confused, touchy!!! :D maybe i will some day get one stihl or another, but i will only ever be an illegitemate bas***d in your "stihl family". and i will buy that stihl whenever im buying a type of saw that stihl makes a better version of - and it has not happened yet. i like the viking saws cos they pillage the wood better!!
 
Howdy,

I must have forgot to screw my head this morning. After I shut down the computer, I got motivated to dig up my old research file, and when reviewing J.W. Oehrli, Jan. 1960 article "cutting action of chainsaw teeth" in the Forest Products Jornal, did I wake up that I had used ft/sec instead of ft/min. for the chain speeds!

Oehrli demonstrated the fall-off of effeciency effect in his Fig. 14 with curve B showing an effeciency drop from 1.6 ft/min/hp at 2,000 ft/min chain speed to 1.2 ft/min/hp at 5,000 ft./min. This was cutting effeciency without figuring friction, which greatly magnifies the effect on a chainsaw.

The faster a chain turns around the bar, the more it squeezes itself tight into the nose sprocket and onto the bar, quite counter to the expected centrifugal force effect you might expect. Chainsaws are strange.

By the way,Oehrili was a design consultant for McCulloch, and his work greatly influenced the future direction chainsaws and sawchain took.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
thats a pretty cool tidbit walt - it makes perfect sense after thinking about it - the chain squeezing the drive and bar sprockets harder the faster the chain is spinning - all loops want to form into a circle when spinning as this provides rotation with the least resistance. lol - ever seen a cowboy spin a lasso that was an oval instead of a round loop?

anyway - does this have some bearing into the assumption that shorter bars are more efficient since they are closer to a circle than a longer bar?
 
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