Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thank you, you are right on also.
Scary noob experience yesterday, please help
- Thread starter Plasmech
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Thank you, you are right on also.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't think the deaths are that constant, but dropping a tree on ones self, cutting your tie ins with a saw (why you ALWAYS have two when running a saw!!).
The biggest thing is injuries!! Cuts across the arms, shins and face are the biggest blunders I read about. Lots of pain, lots of stitches, lots of time healing!!
The biggest thing is injuries!! Cuts across the arms, shins and face are the biggest blunders I read about. Lots of pain, lots of stitches, lots of time healing!!
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
What I meant was that gravity is constant, if thats what you mean? You are right though, far more injury's than deaths.
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sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
No, your post was pefect!! I was just adding some details so it was easier to understand
Plasmech
Addicted to ArboristSite
What is the most common trigger for one being crushed by a limb? Do people often drop trees on top of themselves? How does that happen? Not to ask a stupid question...
I am on a $1,000 plan
Already own the saws, 192 TC and MS-290.
Hi, Well you're still alive and in one piece. So far so good.
Tell us what kind of Maple and in what state it was in- live, dead, half rotted, etc. Different Maples act differently. Sugar Maples are famous for what you described. When cutting a tree down in the direction of a heavy lean or when pulling (generally too hard), the problem you described is called a barber chair. It is quite dangerous. As in your head goes in one direction, body in the other. Here gravity pulling on the limb did it. In Beranek's book which I know you will have shortly and will read cover to cover again and again, the improved jump cut might have prevented the problem. However, if you can reach the limb with a ladder it is possible the end of the limb will hit the ground and bonce the heavy end right back at you. Another good way to get hurt. Not seeing the situation, it is not possible for me to tell anyone how to do it right. I might have gone out on the limb and cut it off half way. Tied in, of course. I might have put a line on the limb and anchored it higher up in the tree to take some of the tip weight, since you have two people there and then as the limb comes loose, let the line run.
However, my main point is the 192 TC. That is a top handle saw and more prone to kickback and to the use of it one handed where is is not necessary or safe. I have had to put drops in my friends empty eye socket at lunch from a chain saw accident. I assure you it does nothing for my appetite! I have seen the results of running a chain saw one handed without knowledge of how. I assure you that person will never do anything two handed again! Loose the top handle saw! Wear face and eye protection!
Eljefe
Already own the saws, 192 TC and MS-290.
Hi, Well you're still alive and in one piece. So far so good.
Tell us what kind of Maple and in what state it was in- live, dead, half rotted, etc. Different Maples act differently. Sugar Maples are famous for what you described. When cutting a tree down in the direction of a heavy lean or when pulling (generally too hard), the problem you described is called a barber chair. It is quite dangerous. As in your head goes in one direction, body in the other. Here gravity pulling on the limb did it. In Beranek's book which I know you will have shortly and will read cover to cover again and again, the improved jump cut might have prevented the problem. However, if you can reach the limb with a ladder it is possible the end of the limb will hit the ground and bonce the heavy end right back at you. Another good way to get hurt. Not seeing the situation, it is not possible for me to tell anyone how to do it right. I might have gone out on the limb and cut it off half way. Tied in, of course. I might have put a line on the limb and anchored it higher up in the tree to take some of the tip weight, since you have two people there and then as the limb comes loose, let the line run.
However, my main point is the 192 TC. That is a top handle saw and more prone to kickback and to the use of it one handed where is is not necessary or safe. I have had to put drops in my friends empty eye socket at lunch from a chain saw accident. I assure you it does nothing for my appetite! I have seen the results of running a chain saw one handed without knowledge of how. I assure you that person will never do anything two handed again! Loose the top handle saw! Wear face and eye protection!
Eljefe
AT sawyer
ArboristSite Operative
Barber chair
Here is a grainy but classic video of some yahoos cutting a tree with an obvious lean and a resulting barber chair. Think of where your head would be if you were standing in front of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucjWV3p-jpQ
That said, why didn't you put a wire on that maple and pull it in the preferred direction? A good Griphoist will give you positive control, providing you have enough room to drop it whole.
Here is a grainy but classic video of some yahoos cutting a tree with an obvious lean and a resulting barber chair. Think of where your head would be if you were standing in front of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucjWV3p-jpQ
That said, why didn't you put a wire on that maple and pull it in the preferred direction? A good Griphoist will give you positive control, providing you have enough room to drop it whole.
Plasmech
Addicted to ArboristSite
I could have put a wire on the tree and pulled it without doing much climbing, but the point of this post was/is to figure out what I did wrong on the branch drop so I don't do it again.
Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
Put a camera in your list of equipment we need pics of your next fiasco. 
The answer to your pertinent question is you need to make the top cut fast.
As for the rest of your blunder you need to read. Get a little smarter before you do something like that again.
The answer to your pertinent question is you need to make the top cut fast.
As for the rest of your blunder you need to read. Get a little smarter before you do something like that again.
Plasmech
Addicted to ArboristSite
Put a camera in your list of equipment we need pics of your next fiasco.
The answer to your pertinent question is you need to make the top cut fast.
As for the rest of your blunder you need to read. Get a little smarter before you do something like that again.
Let's not forget that I did admit that I made a stupid, stupid mistake. I'm not sitting here denying it over and over again
I want to learn from you guys, remember that
I like your spunk, Plasmech--you don't need to grovel in front of all these pros. And I wouldn't characterize your experience as a "stupid, stupid mistake," either; the fact that you were taken by surprise shows you were a bit over your head, but you were thinking ahead and took several worthwhile precautions that kept you out of trouble. It was a teachable moment, as they say. There is a ton of stuff you can learn here and from a few good books that help to keep you safe. Good luck.
Plasmech
Addicted to ArboristSite
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Let's not forget that I did admit that I made a stupid, stupid mistake. I'm not sitting here denying it over and over again
I want to learn from you guys, remember that
Ok, start with the kits on this page, avoid the "rock" kis for obvious reasons: http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?SKW=climbing kit&catID=1393
Now, see what's in there? Look around and see if you like a diferent saddle, rope etc. it's never good to use spikes on a trim, it's always good to use spikes on a take down. Keep in mind a "split tail" will be very handy for making your pruisic knot, which ever you choose. I still climb on a Blakes hitch, simple and effective for my fat azz!
You will need another hank of rope for a bull rope no matter what, I need to get another one even. Buy Arborplex for that, it's tough as nails, strong as a bull and cheap.
As you go you will need some slings, and I would recomend a chainsaw lanyard, I wont climb without one! I like the bung style that breaks away, gets the saw away from me if I need to drop it.
Get plenty of 'biners, plan on paying $25 each, and have at a minimum of 3.
Get the "Tree climbers compainion" by Jeff Jepsom. Read it, read it again, read it again, read it until it's in your head, you dream about that book!! Get a chunk of rope and take it everywhere. Practice your knots every chance you get.
THEN try climbing a tree. go slow and stay low. Learn how to hip thrust then work to foot locking. You will look like an azz for a while, but get over it!!! Practice this, ask more questions, then work your way up a tree. Lear to reposition in a tree. Learn how to do a re-direct in a tree keeping the original TIP and using the tag line of your rope.
Set up a crotch line and tie your bull line up in the tree a few times.
THEN, if you still feel comfortable, and think you want to do this, take a saw up and do a trim job.
I know how hard this is to learn alone, I did, and am still learning daily.
It's not for everyone!! There are days I love being in the tree. There are days I can't get out fast enough!!!!
Look like something you want to do?
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Simple, cutting without knowing whats going to happen and being caught off guard. This should not happed during treework. If you don't know exactly how it is going to go, you don't start the saw. This is why you need to watch from the ground first. Every hazzard has to be identified, taken into account and planned around.
People go up thinking they will learn as they go, saying to themselves "if I just take my time", like they are teaching themselves to croche', then BOOM! lights out. Taking your time won't help you when the saw is running, reading the limb (and all potential hazzards), selecting the right cut, and executing it with perfect timing and feel will. In the tree you need to make it happen, not watch it happen.
Yes, people drop trees and limbs on themselves all the time, those are the ones you read about in the death and injury forum. My only real advice is go work as a groundman for an expert, thats the best education/insurance you can get.
Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
Let's not forget that I did admit that I made a stupid, stupid mistake. I'm not sitting here denying it over and over again
I want to learn from you guys, remember that
Ok, so my first remark was a little smart, didn't intend to use like a punching bag. But get a camera pics are great.
The rest was just good advise you need to follow.
The first sign of intelligent life in your head was posting here.
Practice that drop cut. It is much easier to fall that branch if it doesn't hang up. And while I'm on the subject, a 6" branch is a ridiculous (no it's really something somebody with zero experience would cut) size. Got to go out on the limb and take smaller pieces. I am going to stop myself here I am no pro and am getting nervous just typing about this stuff.
But Plasmech you keep pursuing getting the knowledge to get it right and safely. Moray is right you have the spunk to have gotten this far. Just hit those books and learn some safety. And do keep us posted.
Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nails you are an articulate poster, sure you wouldn't make a better teacher. (Not that someone would want to go from the tree to the classroom but just so you know)
treemandan
Tree Freak
the sherrills tree catalog.
actually, buy these 2 books and read them repeatedly.
Mike, use a ladder to get in a tree, or tie a rope. never, ever cut from one regardless of tying it down and/or tying in.
learn to climb or leave it alone. please, you're trying to learn, give it time to sink in. you should be searching this site relentlessly, if you are going to be teaching yourself tree work. I've seen a lot of people hurt, and known people who have gotten killed.
THE LIFE YOU SAVE WILL BE YOUR OWN.:blob5:
I have never read those books but I am dying to. You know, not to start a riot and I have done some dumb things BUT : Does it mention in either of those books about not cutting from a ladder? I was wondering. It seems like there are two different types of gentlemen in this world. One who has the ladder and the other one who does not.
I was curious to see if any of those types of books broached the subject of ladder usage. Maybe point out the areas where a ladder should be used and where it shouldn't.
I mean when you see a big ladder strapped on some kind of makeshift tree vehicle and a few guys looking up you have a good sense there might be trouble.
Out of all they DIY'ers ( ladder cutters) I met this year 50 % made it. Thought I don't see how they made it I did see a few who did not make it... saw their ladders to... it was ugly.
On conifer Td's don't even let the rope hang down there.
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for the vote of confidence Adkpk!
I have done some teaching already for the high schools AG/Tech program and plan to do some more. It's a progression, and I am only almost 28, so I won't be out of the tree anytime soon.
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Personally, I think it's OK to enter a tree from a ladder, but you shouldn't cut from one, that is unless you are trimming really light stuff (1" diameter) on smaller trees. Once the climber is secured in the tree the ladder needs to be removed.
treemandan
Tree Freak
Ok, start with the kits on this page, avoid the "rock" kis for obvious reasons: http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?SKW=climbing kit&catID=1393
Now, see what's in there? Look around and see if you like a diferent saddle, rope etc. it's never good to use spikes on a trim, it's always good to use spikes on a take down. Keep in mind a "split tail" will be very handy for making your pruisic knot, which ever you choose. I still climb on a Blakes hitch, simple and effective for my fat azz!
You will need another hank of rope for a bull rope no matter what, I need to get another one even. Buy Arborplex for that, it's tough as nails, strong as a bull and cheap.
As you go you will need some slings, and I would recomend a chainsaw lanyard, I wont climb without one! I like the bung style that breaks away, gets the saw away from me if I need to drop it.
Get plenty of 'biners, plan on paying $25 each, and have at a minimum of 3.
Get the "Tree climbers compainion" by Jeff Jepsom. Read it, read it again, read it again, read it until it's in your head, you dream about that book!! Get a chunk of rope and take it everywhere. Practice your knots every chance you get.
THEN try climbing a tree. go slow and stay low. Learn how to hip thrust then work to foot locking. You will look like an azz for a while, but get over it!!! Practice this, ask more questions, then work your way up a tree. Lear to reposition in a tree. Learn how to do a re-direct in a tree keeping the original TIP and using the tag line of your rope.
Set up a crotch line and tie your bull line up in the tree a few times.
THEN, if you still feel comfortable, and think you want to do this, take a saw up and do a trim job.
I know how hard this is to learn alone, I did, and am still learning daily.
It's not for everyone!! There are days I love being in the tree. There are days I can't get out fast enough!!!!
Look like something you want to do?
Holy crap!I thought you were a firewood scab ( meant in the best way). I had no idea. Is that you making a mess of what looks like an elm and am I mistaken or is that a Walmart helmet?
Kudos.
