Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[JimR]

Who knows axes? I found this one at the farm today. It has a 7 1/2" wide cutting face. What would they have used such a wide faced axe for?

 

[Sawdust Man]

Who knows axes? I found this one at the farm today. It has a 7 1/2" wide cutting face. What would they have used such a wide faced ax for?

Looks like maybe for hand hewing beams.
Is the cutting edge off-set?

 

[Kodiak Kid]

If anything, I might add hours to it... it's a much lighter piston (10grams lighter after machining) and IMO a lighter piston is going to exert less force on the crank. That's why the x-torque 372s are so much harder on main bearings than the OE 372.

Also the 660 is a much taller piston...even after cutting it down, I really think this 660 piston will wear the intake side of the skirt less than the stock piston.

I do add compression, but I'm not doing anything that won't run on pump gas...I also raise the exhaust port, so the effective compression ratio is probably pretty similar to stock. It doesn't free-rev any higher than stock, only pulls more rpm when in the cut. As much as I do to fit the 660 piston in it, I'd say the saw is very much on the "work saw" side of things. I could change some port timing with a new piston and bump compression up a bit without any adverse effect on longevity IMO.

Well, I know you've built a lot of hybrids and have learned a lot from trial and error jug and piston work. You also have worked on a lot of DB motors as well as PS motors. Sounds like you definitely know what you're doing, so I'll shut up then! You may be the next Jason Egan when it comes to hopped up power saw performance! Good on ya!

 

[cantoo]

It's getting more dangerous in the bush as the Ash die off. I haven't been back much in the last couple of months so went back to clear some trails before deer hunting and then this week I cut a few down. I was skidding one out and noticed this 20" one broke right off at the bottom and hanging by a sliver. If I was skidding the other way and hooked I'm sure it would have fallen right on me the same as what happened to the old Hemlock by my log wagon last year. I cut a decent one down and was behind the tree just to the right of the picture. You can see the top of the tree on the left side of the base log. It broke off as it fell, then went straight down ( you can see the fresh split chunk in the ground at the far end) split again and fell towards the stump. I was peeking around the edge of the tree and a small branch flew thru the air and got me. My safety glasses worked good but my safety toque didn't stop much. When I'm cutting these ash down I prefer to have a tree between me and the stump rather than high tail it and risk getting hit by flying debris. This one fell against the side of the maple which acted like a slingshot and flung crap back my way. 2nd last picture shows the top of a tree broken off and laying across the tree. Last picture is a bunch of live deck panels that I picked up for some day. Going shopping for a better helmet next week.

 

[Sierra_rider]

Well, I know you've built a lot of hybrids and have learned a lot from trial and error jug and piston work. You also have worked on a lot of DB motors as well as PS motors. Sounds like you definitely know what you're doing, so I'll shut up then! You may be the next Jason Egan when it comes to hopped up power saw performance! Good on ya!

I'm actually not that special...well, I am special, just not in a good way. I don't know that I'm going to do anything too revolutionary, I just enjoy the process...I guess that's why I enjoyed the 566i build so much, there isn't any diy guide for how to do it, so I enjoyed the problem solving of making it work. The act of grinding on the cases of a $1600 saw just to try out a concept is rather exhilarating lol.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I did some minor machine and port work on my 400. Along with the wrap handle kit and 461R oiler guts, it pulls a 28" lwb with authority. I could even run a 32" if I had to, but I've got several other saws better suited for that.

Roger that, I'm not saying a stock MS 400 isn't capable of pulling a 28" or even a 32". But why would anyone want to. The saw simply wasn't designed fir that type of work load.
Completely bury a 32" bar in the wood and compare max load rpms to a 500 or 661 with the same bar and chain buried in the same wood. The work load and cut time difference would be like night and day is all I'm saying. If that makes any sense.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I'm actually not that special...well, I am special, just not in a good way. I don't know that I'm going to do anything too revolutionary, I just enjoy the process...I guess that's why I enjoyed the 566i build so much, there isn't any diy guide for how to do it, so I enjoyed the problem solving of making it work. The act of grinding on the cases of a $1600 saw just to try out a concept is rather exhilarating lol.

Yeah I bet! I don't have the patience, knowledge, equipment or time to Frankinstine saws into Power Plants. That's why I pay guys like you to do it!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Who knows axes? I found this one at the farm today. It has a 7 1/2" wide cutting face. What would they have used such a wide faced ax for?

Is it flat on one side? If so, its is a peeling and froe axe. Used fir stripping bark and breaking down shake bolts in the place of an actual draw knife and froe. However, it is not as efficient as either. Kind of a three in one axe/hatchet would be my guess.

 

[Sierra_rider]

Roger that, I'm not saying a stock MS 400 isn't capable of pulling a 28" or even a 32". But why would anyone want to. The saw simply wasn't designed fir that type of work load.
Completely bury a 32" bar in the wood and compare max load rpms to a 500 or 661 with the same bar and chain buried in the same wood. The work load and cut time difference would be like night and day is all I'm saying. If that makes any sense.

I hear you on that, but I think a wrap-handle version of it or the 462R w/the 28" would make the perfect fire saw...IMO a good wildland fire saw needs to be around 70cc...light enough that you can cut fire line with it, but strong enough that you can cut down burning snags.

I run a 462R w/ a 28" Stihl lwb at work...the 462R is light enough that you can cut line with it as long as you have good techique(and a strong back.) It's also got enough power to be an ok falling saw. The 28" is my favorite bar length for having to multitask like this. I can safely deal with most snags with this length bar and it's just right that I'm not having to reach or bend down if I'm cutting brush with it.

The only complaint I had with the 462 is that it's a bit light on torque in stock form. I did a bit of tweaking on the cylinder and is now a good runner. The 400 would fill this role fairly well too. A lot of crews are going with the 500i, or bought a bunch of 461s while they were still available...but I think the 462 does a much better job of filling that role. Partly because of weight, the other reason is air filtration.

The air filtration is awesome on the 400 or 462. The 461 and 500 both need Max-flows, which are a PITA to deal with when you don't have a sink to wash filters at the end of every day. You can run stock filters on the 461/500, but then you're tapping them out almost every time you fuel up...especially if you're cutting stuff that was already burned. A lot of the other saw guys hate on my 462, but I don't think they've even ever cut with it...they just have the bigger=better mentality.

My personal 400 wears a 28" lwb for a couple of reasons. Part of it is reach, the other reason is that it's my go-to rear handle saw for climbing. I started with a 24" lwb on it, but found that it could be a bit short for chunking down large spars. I don't mind double cutting on the ground, but I don't want to do it when working off of spurs.

 

[Sierra_rider]

Yeah I bet! I don't have the patience, knowledge, equipment or time to Frankinstine saws into Power Plants. That's why I pay guys like you to do it!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

That's partly why I try to still pick up side work when I can. For one, I enjoy cutting, but it also allows me to test this stuff out in an actual working environment...because good cookie cutters don't always=good work saws. I know I don't like some peaky powerband that I have to feather into the cut when I'm tired/broke off at the end of the day.

 

[sean donato]

It's getting more dangerous in the bush as the Ash die off. I haven't been back much in the last couple of months so went back to clear some trails before deer hunting and then this week I cut a few down. I was skidding one out and noticed this 20" one broke right off at the bottom and hanging by a sliver. If I was skidding the other way and hooked I'm sure it would have fallen right on me the same as what happened to the old Hemlock by my log wagon last year. I cut a decent one down and was behind the tree just to the right of the picture. You can see the top of the tree on the left side of the base log. It broke off as it fell, then went straight down ( you can see the fresh split chunk in the ground at the far end) split again and fell towards the stump. I was peeking around the edge of the tree and a small branch flew thru the air and got me. My safety glasses worked good but my safety toque didn't stop much. When I'm cutting these ash down I prefer to have a tree between me and the stump rather than high tail it and risk getting hit by flying debris. This one fell against the side of the maple which acted like a slingshot and flung crap back my way. 2nd last picture shows the top of a tree broken off and laying across the tree. Last picture is a bunch of live deck panels that I picked up for some day. Going shopping for a better helmet next week.

Playing with fire there. I won't take down any dead ash for the reasons you mention. Zero predictable outcome when felling.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I hear you on that, but I think a wrap-handle version of it or the 462R w/the 28" would make the perfect fire saw...IMO a good wildland fire saw needs to be around 70cc...light enough that you can cut fire line with it, but strong enough that you can cut down burning snags.

I run a 462R w/ a 28" Stihl lwb at work...the 462R is light enough that you can cut line with it as long as you have good techique(and a strong back.) It's also got enough power to be an ok falling saw. The 28" is my favorite bar length for having to multitask like this. I can safely deal with most snags with this length bar and it's just right that I'm not having to reach or bend down if I'm cutting brush with it.

The only complaint I had with the 462 is that it's a bit light on torque in stock form. I did a bit of tweaking on the cylinder and is now a good runner. The 400 would fill this role fairly well too. A lot of crews are going with the 500i, or bought a bunch of 461s while they were still available...but I think the 462 does a much better job of filling that role. Partly because of weight, the other reason is air filtration.

The air filtration is awesome on the 400 or 462. The 461 and 500 both need Max-flows, which are a PITA to deal with when you don't have a sink to wash filters at the end of every day. You can run stock filters on the 461/500, but then you're tapping them out almost every time you fuel up...especially if you're cutting stuff that was already burned. A lot of the other saw guys hate on my 462, but I don't think they've even ever cut with it...they just have the bigger=better mentality.

My personal 400 wears a 28" lwb for a couple of reasons. Part of it is reach, the other reason is that it's my go-to rear handle saw for climbing. I started with a 24" lwb on it, but found that it could be a bit short for chunking down large spars. I don't mind double cutting on the ground, but I don't want to do it when working off of spurs.

I would assume the 462 has a noticeable bit more amount of power on the 400 no? I've never run a 462. I had an 046 back in the day the first year thay came out. It would pull a 32 alright in 24"-30" wood. In smaller wood like 18"-22" it was awesome, but buried it was much slower than my 066 with a 32".

 

[Kodiak Kid]

That's partly why I try to still pick up side work when I can. For one, I enjoy cutting, but it also allows me to test this stuff out in an actual working environment...because good cookie cutters don't always=good work saws. I know I don't like some peaky powerband that I have to feather into the cut when I'm tired/broke off at the end of the day.

On the peaky power band when one is gassed and spent twords the end of a hard day! It can be a tough decision sometimes to sacrifice power to shave weight!

 

[Sierra_rider]

I would assume the 462 has a noticeable bit more amount of power on the 400 no? I've never run a 462. I had an 046 back in the day the first year thay came out. It would pull a 32 alright in 24"-30" wood. In smaller wood like 18"-22" it was awesome, but buried it was much slower than my 066 with a 32".

I didn't really think it did. The 462 is only a 72cc saw, the 400 is 67 or 68cc. The power difference is what I would expect for 5 cc difference. The weight difference is also about 1/2lb...not a huge difference, but I do notice it. Even though it is a smaller displacement(72 vs 77cc), the 462 kills the 046/460 on power. I used to run a dual-port 460 at work, even in peaky stock form, I think the 462 is a better falling saw. The weight difference between the 462 and the 460 is huge. It's even considerably lighter than a 440...the 500i is even lighter than the 440. The power difference between the 500i and 462 is considerable in larger wood...the 500i is comfortable with a 32" and you can run 36" if you have to...the 462 version of that combo is 28/32" in softwoods IMO.

 

[Sierra_rider]

On the peaky power band when one is gassed and spent twords the end of a hard day! It can be a tough decision sometimes to sacrifice power to shave weight!

That's the perfect combination that I'm trying to achieve with the 566i. A saw that is a dream to carry around, yet is easy to run in a big cut.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

That's the perfect combination that I'm trying to achieve with the 566i. A saw that is a dream to carry around, yet is easy to run in a big cut.

Well, LW bars have made a big impact in helping out with that achievement! Definitely more delicate than a Solid bar, but boy what a back saver!

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I didn't really think it did. The 462 is only a 72cc saw, the 400 is 67 or 68cc. The power difference is what I would expect for 5 cc difference. The weight difference is also about 1/2lb...not a huge difference, but I do notice it. Even though it is a smaller displacement(72 vs 77cc), the 462 kills the 046/460 on power. I used to run a dual-port 460 at work, even in peaky stock form, I think the 462 is a better falling saw. The weight difference between the 462 and the 460 is huge. It's even considerably lighter than a 440...the 500i is even lighter than the 440. The power difference between the 500i and 462 is considerable in larger wood...the 500i is comfortable with a 32" and you can run 36" if you have to...the 462 version of that combo is 28/32" in softwoods IMO.

Very interesting! Man, power saws have really coming a long way in power to weight ratio!

 

[JimR]

Is it flat on one side? If so, its is a peeling and froe axe. Used fir stripping bark and breaking down shake bolts in the place of an actual draw knife and froe. However, it is not as efficient as either. Kind of a three in one axe/hatchet would be my guess.

Tapered on both sides like a regular axe

 

[JimR]

Looks like maybe for hand hewing beams.
Is the cutting edge off-set?

Nope, it looks like a regular axe

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Tapered on both sides like a regular axe

Interesting. Now you've got me myself curious! Have you tried googling it?