Seal finders here you go. Poulan 306-245 seal measurments

[Arrowhead]

Found both the aftermarket PTO side seals manufactured by Dichtomatik. BTW, neither of the OEM Poulan 306/245 PTO side seals are a garter spring type pressure seal, both are the V seal designs but have worked well for thirty years or more & the new ones passed pressure/vacuum testing fine. Both of my saws have new seals & oiler plunger quad rings now all through, and they run great. The OEM outer seal for the oiler cover is 5/8" x 7/8" by an 1/8" in width, Poulan 530019035. The inner PTO side seal is Poulan 5300001936, both are metal OD, V type lips.

Here's their website, https://catalog.dichtomatik.us/ Go to the Product Information tab & download the catalog, it's rather large but quite worth reading through. Seals are on page 71 & 74.

The inner seal is a #068091VM. There's only one design choice available, V seal & Metal OD.

The outer seal I used was a #060809VC . It's also a V seal with a rubber coated OD and thinner at 0.094" width. I don't think a pressure type garter is necessary, as the oiler cover flanges fits loosely. If they made a metal OD VM type, I would have preferred that.

There are three other outer PTO seals available in the correct dimensions, one is a #0608709VC & shows to be only 0.001" wider, WTF is up with that??

The other two seals are true garter spring designs, the 06081SM & 060871TZ-H. The SM is a single lip metal OD type, and the TZ-H is a dual lip metal OD type with a factory sealant coating on the OD. Both of the garter types are an 1/8" wide.

Don't forget to put sealant on the two larger oiler cover bolts when you put the cover back on, as that's a direct shot into the crankcase! In other words, you can't pressure/vac test unless you plug those holes.

REP time.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Good work, I have never heard of that company, and never stumbled across it before.

I'll check it out soon when I get some more time.

 

[fossil]

I spoke to a couple of the guys at the local bearing shop when I was looking for seals for the 3400 and they said as long as the seals didn't interfere with anything that width was nothing to worry about.

 

[hotshot]

I spoke to a couple of the guys at the local bearing shop when I was looking for seals for the 3400 and they said as long as the seals didn't interfere with anything that width was nothing to worry about.

My WTF (what's this for) was directed at a company marketing two seals with widths that close & with the exact same design & materials of construction. It's probably just a misprint, as it would be hard to hold the seal width tolerance at 0.001" anyway.

 

[fossil]

My WTF (what's this for) was directed at a company marketing two seals with widths that close & with the exact same design & materials of construction. It's probably just a misprint, as it would be hard to hold the seal width tolerance at 0.001" anyway.

Nope, That was aVreply to your post #6

CR5542 or 5541
Heres the FW side from SKF & selected for Viton material (CRW1-V type)

Product Datasheet for 5542

That PTO side is a real bugger to find, as the width is only 0.135"

 

[Modifiedmark]

I was working on my Speigel branded Poulan 223 yesterday and thought I would add this to this thread as well.

In case its not known, as much as they look a like, the first 200 series (68-69) saws look like and can be mistaken for 306/245 saws but there are some differences in them.

One difference is the FW side crank seal which is much smaller then the later 306/245. Its Poulan part # 19003 which is of course NLA. I measured the seal, crank etc best I could with the crank still in the saw. A NOS seal measured .812 which would be right at 13/16. The crank measured .563, right at 9/16 and the seal "steel" measured .125 but the whole seal with the rubber protuding was wider.

Just a quick look shows a Timken 313156 should work. It shows a .562 shaft dia, .81 housing bore, a .814 outer dia and a .187 width. Material is Acrylates which I'm not familer with.

The 200 series used the same PTO side seal as the 306/245 that we had been searching.

 

[Bob Wright]

That PTO side is a real bugger to find, as the width is only 0.135" [/B]

They can be cut down with a lathe and some tooling to hold the seal. I cut some down for my neighbor to fit his antique Dodge truck. I had to bore a 1/8" plate the dia of the seal. Then split it in half to grip the seal because his seal was only a smidge thicker than the plate but it worked....Bob

 

[hotshot]

That polyacrylate is not rated for gasoline, did you look in Dichromatik's catalog yet? Too bad Timken didn't
offer that size in a Nitrile lip. I assume that the original seal was just a V lip design, (no garter spring) correct?

I just checked the Dichro catalog...they don't have one that size. SKF does offer a single lip w/ spring #5510, HMS1 type in regular Nitrile. It's not a dual lip, but should work fine for the application.

http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/457010/sealdetail.asp?s=5510

You got me hooked on those P306s now, after seeing your GREAT restoration thread a while back. I just fixed up
another runner, it's number five in the stable, including maintaining Dad's old saw that he still cuts with. Had to buy
a new cylinder, as mud daubers had nested inside of it!

 

[Modifiedmark]

That polyacrylate is not rated for gasoline, did you look in Dichromatik's catalog yet? Too bad Timken didn't
offer that size in a Nitrile lip. I assume that the original seal was just a V lip design, (no garter spring) correct?

I just checked the Dichro catalog...they don't have one that size.

No I didnt get too far into it. Just a quick look in the Timken listings. It is a regular looking 2 lip seal with a spring. I'll photo it later when I can find it in this mess on the bench.

 

[hotshot]

Update

My WTF (what's this for) was directed at a company marketing two seals with widths that close & with the exact same design & materials of construction. It's probably just a misprint, as it would be hard to hold the seal width tolerance at 0.001" anyway.

Well, my thought was right on the two catalog sizes listed for this little seal. Just got around
last week to call the Dichtomatik sales office in Houston to check.

The Dichtomatik catalog is wrong & has two part numbers duplicated on page 71. The correct
number for the P306 outside pump cover grease seal is 0608709VC, which is 7/8" OD. The
part number 060809VC is a 0.813" OD & would be too small.

Also found out that Fastenal can get this seal brand shipped to their locations in just a few
days, usually from a central warehouse in Shakopee, Minnesota.

 

[hotshot]

Well, my thought was right on the two catalog sizes listed for this little seal. Just got around
last week to call the Dichtomatik sales office in Houston to check.

The Dichtomatik catalog is wrong & has two part numbers duplicated on page 71. The correct
number for the P306 outside pump cover grease seal is 0608709VC, which is 7/8" OD. The
part number 060809VC is a 0.813" OD & would be too small.

Also found out that Fastenal can get this seal brand shipped to their locations in just a few
days, usually from a central warehouse in Shakopee, Minnesota.

Well crap, I (tried) using another 0608709VC rubber coated oil pump cover seal, and it won't stay put. With all the
grease that you packing into the gear housing, then have to install the cam end up into the seal before you install
the gear set, the greasy seal pops just back out of the cover housing. There is no backstop/ledge for this seal application,
as the 7/8" hole in the cover is bored straight through. The first one I used did fine, but I installed it after degreasing and used some Dirko HT on the outside edge. I don't suggest using this slippery type 0608709VC rubber OD seal.

Ues the DICHTOMATIC #06081SM seal, which has a STEEL CASE OD & uses a garter spring to back the NBR nitrile lip.

 

[Eccentric]

Been meaning to ask....

What's the difference between the CRF/SKF 5541 and 5542 seals? I'll most likely get my seals at a local bearing house........but did a quick search on feebay for SKF 5541 and SKF 5542. Same seller had both seals.......with drastically different prices for them. Descriptions look identical. I'm confused. Material type maybe?

SKF 5542 Oil Seal New Grease Seal CR Seal | eBay

SKF 5541 Oil Seal New Grease Seal CR Seal | eBay

I recently lucked out and got four NOS PTO side seals on ebay for peanuts.:msp_thumbup:

CR5542 or 5541

Heres the FW side from SKF & selected for Viton material (CRW1-V type)

Product Datasheet for 5542

That PTO side is a real bugger to find, as the width is only 0.135"

 

[hotshot]

What's the difference between the CRF/SKF 5541 and 5542 seals? I'll most likely get my seals at a local bearing house........but did a quick search on feebay for SKF 5541 and SKF 5542. Same seller had both seals.......with drastically different prices for them. Descriptions look identical. I'm confused. Material type maybe?

SKF 5542 Oil Seal New Grease Seal CR Seal | eBay

SKF 5541 Oil Seal New Grease Seal CR Seal | eBay

I recently lucked out and got four NOS PTO side seals on ebay for peanuts.:msp_thumbup:

The 5542 seal lip is made of Viton & the 5541 is the standard Nitrile elastomer. If you check the max speed rating for that shaft size using their nomograph, the nitrile speed limits out at less than 6000 RPM. I doubt that warrants the price difference though for these "occasional use" saws, but the life span & heat rating of Viton is a lot better.

 

[Modifiedmark]

The 5542 seal lip is made of Viton & the 5541 is the standard Nitrile elastomer. If you check the max speed rating for that shaft size using their nomograph, the nitrile speed limits out at less than 6000 RPM. I doubt that warrants the price difference though for these "occasional use" saws, but the life span & heat rating of Viton is a lot better.

Thanks a lot for your effort here, and keeping the updates coming. I still have those muffler questions to address for you, just keep forgetting.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Mark,
a little rabbit trail here. i've seen you mention you beer can method before. got any links or pix a dunderhead could follow?

 

[hotshot]

Got it figured out

Thanks a lot for your effort here, and keeping the updates coming. I still have those muffler questions to address for you, just keep forgetting.

It's all good now Mark & I want to thank you for the help. I quit bit$Hing about the Stihl 045/056 ignition parts generation & compatability changes after I got into the P306/245 & older 361 muffler combinations sorting through a box of old parts!

There turned out to be three or four combinations with the tin & cast housings, some with weldnuts on the back & w/o the weld nut for using the single cylinder head bolt boss mounting hole, and then the third types like the Dayton "two screw" that went directly into the exhaust flanges.

When you combine that with the older 361 series, that had their exhaust port & the muff body casing centered up (muff casing not offset towards the bottom of the saw like the P306/245 series), there was another set of issues getting the "box of spare parts" organized correctly. But I got it done.

PS - I ordered a half dozen of the Dichto #06081SM outer cover P306/245 seals yesterday, & will post back after I actually put one into an oil pump cover...

Randy

 

[Modifiedmark]

It's all good now Mark & I want to thank you for the help. I quit bit$Hing about the Stihl 045/056 ignition parts generation & compatability changes after I got into the P306/245 & older 361 muffler combinations sorting through a box of old parts!

There turned out to be three or four combinations with the tin & cast housings, some with weldnuts on the back & w/o the weld nut for using the single cylinder head bolt boss mounting hole, and then the third types like the Dayton "two screw" that went directly into the exhaust flanges.

When you combine that with the older 361 series, that had their exhaust port & the muff body casing centered up (muff casing not offset towards the bottom of the saw like the P306/245 series), there was another set of issues getting the "box of spare parts" organized correctly. But I got it done.

PS - I ordered a half dozen of the Dichto #06081SM outer cover P306/245 seals yesterday, & will post back after I actually put one into an oil pump cover...

Randy

Yes, let us know how they turn out. I found that putting a bevel on the outside of the case helps when trying to install those thin seals.

I knew of most of the differences in the mufflers but never noticed the 361 style was different. I'll watch out for that.

 

[hotshot]

This threads a wrap!

Picked up a half dozen of the DICHTOMATIC #06081SM seals at Fastenal today, and they are the correct ones for
oil pump gear cover on the P245/306 series saws. The only difference is that these are garter spring backed, and not the
simple V lipped grease seal that was factory installed by Poulan. If you want pics, and I can some post later on.

Unless MM needs help on the Speigel 223 seal, this thread is wrapped up like fishing line on your lawn mower shaft!

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Mark,
a little rabbit trail here. i've seen you mention you beer can method before. got any links or pix a dunderhead could follow?

anyone?

 

[Eccentric]

anyone?

What Mark is talking about is wrapping a strip of aluminum cut from a beer can around the 'step' on the crankshaft to make a 'ramp' for the seal lip to ride up without being cut or rolled under. I use some blue masking tape or packing tape to do the same thing. Others use a strip of plastic. Anything that makes a smooth/safe transition for the seal lip will work fine.