shady tree company

[outdoorsman0490]

I apologize if this is not in the correct forum, but it deals with a number of topics, the underlying being the tree co. that did the work.

A guy in the neighborhood brought in a tree co. to clear his yard, all oaks, prob. 6, large >2' dbl. The guys got them all to the ground and bucked up all the limbs and leader, except for the trunks. I figured that since the h.o. neighbors were taking the wood, the tree co. would buck the trunks when the small stuff was out of the way.
The tree co. picked up 4 more jobs on the same street and was in the area for better than 2 weeks. At these other jobs, the h.os. did not want the wood either. I talked to the ground guy, and he said I could have it. I worked with the tree guys after I got out of my full time job, to pick their site clean so the jobs were finished, and their boss could bet paid. The ground guy said they normally need to get rid of the wood, so they were happy I was relieving them of that duty.
The original h.o. had an oak log which was prime for milling, he said I could use if for that, and I spent this past saturday at his house milling the log. In the mean time, his yard has been cleaned up by his neighbors for about 2 weeks now. The h.o. keeps trying to get in contact with the tree co., but as it turns out, he paid them up-front, now they are not returning his calls. I told the h.o. that he shouldn't have paid up front (cash I think), and that if they screwed him, I would buck everything as a thank you for the log, and b/c he is a nice guy and new to the neighborhood.
This morning the h.o. called me and said he got a hold of the tree co., he had to *69 for the owner to pick up since they would not answer for his number. The owner told the h.o. that he talked to me and said I was going to buck the trunks in payment for the firewood.
I have no problem helping out the h.o. as I said before; but I have several issues with the owner of the tree co.
1- We never talked, he is putting words in my mouth I didn't say, I find that very disrespectful.
2- the tree co has been paid, bucking the trunks was part of the job they got paid for, they should see it through
3- me taking the firewood from them helped them out more than me, they would have had to spend several extra days picking up the wood had I not taken it, I took about 12 loads between me and my uncle
4- out of curtisy, I gave the tree co. workers a case of beer last sunday as a thank you for letting me take the wood

My question is how should I handle this situation. That tree co. really frosts my (you know what). They were paid to do a job, they need to finish it. Also, how dare they say I said something I did not, that conversation never took place, I helped them out and now they are trying to "screw" me and the h.o. I find the tree co. as a very shady operation, no safety equipment (ppe), no cones, no chip box on their truck, etc.
Ultimately I am going to take care of the trunks for the h.o. as I offered to do that in return for the log I milled, but what that tree co. has done does not sit right with me.

What do you guys think??

 

[Bigus Termitius]

You'll have that. Sounds like a drug deal gone wrong.

Honestly, I have some to little to no sympathy for those that get involved with hacks who ask for the CASH UP FRONT.

Red Flag Numero Uno!

BUT....it's like the old adage...you get what you pay for.

Now I could go on and on about how dreadful it all is, and how shady the call screening owner is, but this is how I really feel. No offense, I know it's very cynical of me, my apologies, really, it's such a frustrating reality that I have to employ a healthy dose of cynicism and laugh a little.

 

[treemandan]

I am sorry but if you don't know better than to pay a treeguy before the job is done, much less give him beer, then its your fault.

 

[randyg]

Another side to this story?

Please correct me if I am misunderstanding any of this. You made a verbal contract with the “ground guy” who was acting as agent for the “tree co. owner”, to take the wood. Not sure if the “ground guy” had authority but that seemed to work out all right for you and the ground guys. They didn’t have to pick it up, and you gained 12 loads of firewood. The tree co. owner however is now out 12 loads of firewood. He even paid his workers to buck it up for you. Nice guy.

As for the “new to the neighborhood” guy, who first contracted with the tree co.? He apparently didn’t want any of the wood either. All but the trunks was bucked and ‘taken’ by the neighbors? Was the tree co. chipping the small stuff? The “new to the neighborhood” guy then gives you the “prime” saw log and you mill it into boards on Saturday. I’m not so sure it was his anymore to give away. When I contract to clear and dispose of all debris, and the land owner comes back and wants the saw logs, we renegotiate.

Now “IF” you happened to mention to the “ground guy” that you were going to get those 5 or 6 logs in “new guys” yard too, he probably mentioned that to the tree co. owner, and at the end of the day, seems to me the tree co. owner could be the ONLY one with clean hands. Could the “new guy” (who definitely has a horse in this race) possibly have AGREED with the tree co. owner that if you wanted the firewood, that you would buck it YOURSELF?

Would be interesting to hear the OTHER 2 or 3 sides to this story.

 

[capecodtree]

responsibility

As soon as you offered to take the wood, you relieved the contractor of partial responsibility for the job. From the contractors point of view all the logs and clean up beneath the logs is now your responsibility.
I do not allow "walk on's" looking for wood on my jobs, it's the liability first, and my responsibility to give the h.o. the work they contracted me for second. If someone really needs wood they can go to my shop and have at the wood pile.
I don't understand, if this company was in the area for the next two weeks, why wasn't this issue resolved face to face?

 

[outdoorsman0490]

treemandan; I agree with you, the h.o. (I will refer to him as Job 1) never should have paid up front; since he is getting "burned", he is learning his lesson about going with the cheapest company around. And I gave them the beer for the ground guys letting me have the wood from job 3 and 4.

randyg: the tree co. doesn't want the wood- they don't do firewood, they are actually looking for places to get rid of- in this case it was me. The "new to the neighborhood guy" Job 1 wanted to save money by have the company cut everything up, then letting some of his neighbors and friends take the wood, not me. The wood was always his to give away, the tree company was supposed to cut all of it, and the h.o. was giving it to these people; I asked for the one log and he said that was fine, but all the rest was for his neighbors and friends. At no point was the owner of the tree company made to believe that I was somehow going to take the logs. The h.o. of job 1 made it clear to him what the job was when they set things up; and at no point in the two weeks of work was the owner on site other than to drop off or pick up some of their equipment, which is why a face to face never occurred b/t the h.o. and the owner. The h.o. of job 1 tried to contact the company owner over the past 2 weeks to get them back- he wouldn't pick up and wouldn't call back. Today the h.o. called from a "private" number and the co. owner picked up and fed him the line I was supposed to cut up the wood- the h.o. knew that was not the case at all.

capecodtree- at no point was I in the picture of getting firewood from the original guy, Job 1. That wood was for his friends and neighbors. I was lucky enough to have him agree to let me have that one log- but that was it.

The co. owner said that since I got the wood from job 3 and 4 in the neighborhood, I somehow gained the responsibility to finish bucking wood for job 1 in the neighborhood, when they were already paid for it.
I think you guys are giving this tree co. the benefit of the doubt, maybe some of that is b/c I didn't clarify the story good enough in the beginning. But, this co. is really just trying to burn the h.o. of job 1 by not coming back to finish the job b/c they were already paid, and since all the work is done in the neighborhood they are not going to pick up anymore business by coming back.
Me and the h.o. of job 1 are on the same page, he feels they are trying to screw him b/c he paid already, and he knows it is b.s. they are telling him they are not going to finish, that I have to.
As I said before, I owe to the h.o. to buck the wood for him in trade for the log he let me have; but everyone involved has no respect for this tree company for how they have acted.

 

[capecodtree]

forums

I have found that it is hard to reply to situations depicted on this, or any other site. I was not there so I do not understand the situation as wells you do. I just give my perspective as a tree contractor.
Where I live there are a ton of tree companies, small trees and lot's of money. This combination breeds "shady" tree companies left and right. I fight the professional tree service versus the hacker every day. Keep up the good fight.

 

[treemandan]

Alls I know is that I don't let people off the street just come onto my jobsite cutting wood and trying to help out and that any company that does is lacking.

 

[Tree Pig]

Just curious whereat in Ct and do you know the name of the tree co?

 

[BC WetCoast]

And the conversation you had with the groundie was probably significantly different than the one between the groundie and the owner about this topic.

 

[outdoorsman0490]

these workers encouraged people taking the wood from their jobs, the tree co is getting paid to get the wood off the property, and then they don't have to touch it- they can use that saved time to go onto the next job.

Also, you have to think something is up when the tree co. owner will not pick up the phone for the h.o. of job 1- that is b/c he already has the money in his pocket, if he doesn't care about his reputation, he feels no need to go back and finish a job he has already been paid for.

 

[treemandan]

One of the worst is when a tree service puts an ad on CL saying just to go over and help yourself after they have left.
I say if you can't move the wood then get out of the business and stay out until you can figure out a way to do the dam job on yer own!

 

[lego1970]

Here's my two or three cents with a little rant mixed in,

1. Not to sound like a jerk, but I hate it when the neighbor, relative, or whomever approaches a jobsite wanting wood, asking if they can throw a "small" brush pile in with the original job, telling me how they did it back when they used to be Paul Bunyan, or showing me their new chainsaw. I normaly give in and try to help out whomever, but it's dangerous and very distracting. What's worse is when they let their dog out or kids come watch. Your up there dangling from some limb trying to stay balanced, wanting to make your cut but you gotta stand there and somehow muster up a little smile, while Mommy is chasing the rug rats all around the yard. Even when Wright Tree Service came down my street last summer to trim trees from the powerlines, I didn't get out there and bs with the guys, tell them my war stories, and or try to tell them how to do their jobs. Let them do their jobs.

2. Talking to the groundie was the last person you should of talked to. He's down there dragging brush and hauling out heavy peices of wood all day. He's hot and tired, of course he's gonna say yes to somebody asking to take away some of his work load. The problem is he's often the lowest man on the totum pole with the least amount of authority. Should clarify it with the tree co. owner and the homeowner first. If nothing else at least the crew leader.

3. Unless there is special equipment invovled where they may require partial money up front for rental or sub-contracting, any tree company that doesn't do the job first before getting paid is kinda iffy.

4. Most calls should be returned within an hour or so, but if it's a small outfit the owner may be up in a tree himself and not get a chance to call back untill later in the afternoon.

I wasn't there, nor do I know the other sides of the story. From what you are saying I think talking to the groundie was probably the biggest mistake. Take care and good luck.

 

[outdoorsman0490]

not to beat dead horse here, but the owner was never on scene. He showed up once in the three weeks in order to drop off a piece of equipment, there was only the ground guy and the climber/bucket guy. I don't know where the owner was, but at no point was he out with his guys. Also, I never talked to the tree co about the wood from job 1, when they were at job 2 they had me leave them my phone # so they could call if they had wood they needed to get rid of in the future. They called me the next day to pick up the wood from job 3 and then the next day/2 for job 4, I didn't walk on, they asked me on. So somehow, from helping them out at job 3 and 4, I somehow acquired responsibility to finish their cutting at job 1, how does that make sense? I don't think that tree co. planned on coming back once he was paid in full, and when the ground guy let the owner know I have saws, I became the scapegoat.

 

[lego1970]

not to beat dead horse here, but the owner was never on scene. He showed up once in the three weeks in order to drop off a piece of equipment, there was only the ground guy and the climber/bucket guy. I don't know where the owner was, but at no point was he out with his guys. Also, I never talked to the tree co about the wood from job 1, when they were at job 2 they had me leave them my phone # so they could call if they had wood they needed to get rid of in the future. They called me the next day to pick up the wood from job 3 and then the next day/2 for job 4, I didn't walk on, they asked me on. So somehow, from helping them out at job 3 and 4, I somehow acquired responsibility to finish their cutting at job 1, how does that make sense? I don't think that tree co. planned on coming back once he was paid in full, and when the ground guy let the owner know I have saws, I became the scapegoat.

I hear what your saying, but you had to of made the initial contact. From there (right or wrong) you kinda left it wide open for others to take advantage of you. You can't get nothing for free and that includes so called "free wood".

 

[Toddppm]

Where did these guys come from anyway? Doorknockers? Did their business card say make all checks payable to Selma Woodchuck on it?

 

[treemandan]

not to beat dead horse here, but the owner was never on scene. He showed up once in the three weeks in order to drop off a piece of equipment, there was only the ground guy and the climber/bucket guy. I don't know where the owner was, but at no point was he out with his guys. Also, I never talked to the tree co about the wood from job 1, when they were at job 2 they had me leave them my phone # so they could call if they had wood they needed to get rid of in the future. They called me the next day to pick up the wood from job 3 and then the next day/2 for job 4, I didn't walk on, they asked me on. So somehow, from helping them out at job 3 and 4, I somehow acquired responsibility to finish their cutting at job 1, how does that make sense? I don't think that tree co. planned on coming back once he was paid in full, and when the ground guy let the owner know I have saws, I became the scapegoat.

yes, you sure did become the scapegoat and now I hope you know why. I guess its not the worst thing in the world for a person to come off the street and ask a tree co if he can have some wood but you have to realize the delicate balances you are imposing on.
I put ads on CL to help get rid of wood I don't want, here is how I do it:
I say the more you take the less it costs. Like to load a pickup is pain but to load a trailer of logs right from the job suits me better. I load the wood while the guy who is picking it up stands by his truck and takes care of his truck in the road like a self respecting man should do. There is no cutting going to be done by them. I never let anyone go to a clients house without me and if I feel they are going to try to weasel their way onto the property for any reason I scare that idea right outta their heads pronto. Sure they ask for the address and say they will go down and get it themselves but I just assert myself firmly.
And the way I run my business would never allow even somebody I hired to be on a jobsite without me being there to make sure everything that could go wrong wouldn't.
And if that phone ever rings with someone on the other end having some sort of problem you better believe I am going call that person back quite expiditiously. I don't like problems and i sure hate being the cause of them so if you can't fix any problem that you could cause then also stay the hell out of the business. And if you don't know how to vindicate yourself from a problem that you are not liable for then stay out too. This is the very first thing I sell the client... then I tell em we are comin in across the front lawn, gonna make a big mess, curse at each other and make a lot of noise and they can pay me when we're done doing whatever was written on the propsal. What's so hard about that?

 

[treemandan]

Actually I was once on a job where a lot of civilians were converging, some had saws and were disturbing the crew. I came out of the tree, packed up and rolled. I went back on a weekday when the coast was clear.

 

[treemandan]

And another thing:
I think its downright rude and unprofessional to finish a job then walk up to a customer and expect to get paid. I don't do that with contractors I ever hire to work on my house.
I believe in giving the client his own space and time to inspect my work and passively give him time to call with any questions or concerns and I expect the same from other contractors.

 

[tree MDS]

And another thing:
I think its downright rude and unprofessional to finish a job then walk up to a customer and expect to get paid. I don't do that with contractors I ever hire to work on my house.
I believe in giving the client his own space and time to inspect my work and passively give him time to call with any questions or concerns and I expect the same from other contractors.

I walk up to customers and expect to get paid all the time. You just have to be tactful about the whole thing... I like to knock on the door, inform them that I think we're finished and ask them if they'd like to take a walk around to look over the work. Eventually they realize it's time to pay up.. well most.

It's either that, or more paperwork for me, plus waiting Lord knows how long to actually get the check in the mail.. things happen, expenses come up.. treeguy seems less important after job is finished, etc.

I mean, it's really not that complicated. They hired me to cut tree, tree is done being cut, now is time for them to pay!