Sharpening in the Field

[CT Woodburner]

Just found this site from a suggestion at woodheat.org.
Looks like a great place to dig into some details, so here goes my first post (my apologies up front if this topic has been beaten to death):
Do you all recommend a tool for sharpening chains in the field? When I was running my Stihl 029 Farmboss, I had some 3/8" files from Stihl that I used after each tank of gas. Problem was the lack of control on my part to keep the angle correct; this translated into more than 1 chain that became useless after my filings.
I just upgraded to the Stihl MS-460 Magnum (what a monster!) and would like the ability to dress the chain while cutting in the field with a tool that is a bit more accurate than a file and my eye as a guide!
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thx,
CT Woodburner

 

[clearance]

CT-those 460s are nice. I know others will advise you to use all number of gadgets, and some of them, I am sure will work very well. I advise you to just use the file and your eye. All treeguys and loggers can put a decent edge on a saw by hand, all it takes is practice, practice. I was bucking for a logging show last summer, buddy had a 460 and the chain was like the Husky chain I am used to (I sure hope you are running skip) in that it had a line formed in the tooth. When I started out working, this wasn't there, but it really helps keep the angle. The key is to sharpen your saw before it ever gets "dull". It is also good to have a couple of chains and to get them back in shape with the saw in a vice after work. After a while you will be able to put a wicked edge on your saw and file the rakers to the right height by looking at your file laid straight with the bar on top of the teeth. Wear gloves, took a while to figure that out. It is a good skill to have, took me a while to figure it out, people gave me some pointers, people on this site have posted some really good pictures of sharp chain. Good luck.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Welcome to the site, boots are a good idea and thick skin helps too. First thing is I dont know of a current production chain for an 029 that uses a 3/8 file. The RS and many other Stihl chains call for 13/64" Oregon and most others will be 7/32". There are many discussions here that can be had by doing a search or click on the Bailey's banner above. I believe that Oregon's site has filing info. A filing novice needs a filing guide as do most who have doem it for ages. Carton sells a File-o-plate and Husky sells a roller guide that is seprate from your file. Stihl and Oregon sell very similar flat file guides that an idiot can use (me). Just make sure they are teh correct model for the chain you use.

 

[skwerl]

The Husky roller guide seems to be quite popular amongst those who use it. Can't ever recall someone buying one and saying "What a waste of time and money", so I guess it's probably pretty good.

 

[Patrick62]

I have been told...

The best position for the saw is vertical if you are hand filing.
I am a lot like you, I can't get a decent edge with a file. Angles change badly, etc. If it only takes a few strokes then fine. Otherwise I just swap on another chain and keep going.

The Oregon 511 makes everything wunnerful again.

My $0.02 worth.
-pat

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here's a cutter.
John

 

[woojr]

The picture of the tooth is great. If you didn't completely get it, I think John is saying, is here's what it is supposed to look like. First piece of advice beyond understanding what each tooth is supposed to look like is that they all should be of equal length. All little team mates pulling an equal load. When they are not, you begin wasting time and energy real fast. As well as wearing out the bar and the sprocket. The bottom of the chain and how it fits is affected by the way the cutters work (or don't).
A second thought is that picking up a clamp fixture that hammers into a log or a stump to firmly hold the bar while filing (allows two hands on the file). Be sure chain is adjusted correctly before filing. Won't flop around when you push the file through.
And always clean your file as you're sharpening. I usually just pull it through my glove hand each time I move to the next cutter. And always use sharp fresh files... woojr

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here's a dual purpose cutter as well. Racing on Saturday and working on Monday.
John

 

[Gearhead1]

Sharpening in the field is great...as long as you know what you're doing. All the chains worn out between my Dad and yours truly were sharpened their entire life by hand, while on the saw. Our chains have given very long service lives when maintained in this manner. As another contributor to this thread stated, its best not to let the chain ever really dull. When cutting and you notice that the bite has started to leave the cutters, take a few minutes for a touch-up with the file and you'll be sawing again with ease. It varies quite a bit in different species of wood and other conditions, but some pointers to check as evidence of the chains relative sharpness include size of chips produced, length of time in making cuts to get through the wood, how much the saw engine is laboring. A freshly sharpened chain can really bog the engine if overfeeding it into the log, whereas a dull chain will tend to put less strain on the engine (less bite) and often lead to the operator forcing the saw into the cut to make it through.

 

[clearance]

Nice hook there Gyp, deadly. CT the 460 I ran used 7/32 files, get good files, like Stihl or Prefferd. The rakers are important as well, they shoud be about 25thou or roughly the thickness of a dime. I hope you have and use p.p.e., that is a pro saw and will cut meat just as quick as wood.

 

[ray benson]

About a year ago for the heck of it i checked the thickness of 4 different dimes with a micrometer.They measured .049" to .051".You may want to get a depth gauge - should only be a couple bucks.Here is one style http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/MG-030.html?id=9yQmbJbD
Ray

 

[SawTroll]

The Husky roller guide seems to be quite popular amongst those who use it. Can't ever recall someone buying one and saying "What a waste of time and money", so I guess it's probably pretty good.

Yes, they are really helpful.
The most useful ones are the combi versions, that also includes a raker guide.

However, they are made in different versions for different Oregon chain.
For use on Stihl chain, you first have to pick the right one, and then modify it slightly.
The one that has the blue body will work for RS and RM in 3/8, once modified.

A stump vice may also be a good idea in the field.

 

[Freakingstang]

Yes, they are really helpful.
The most useful ones are the combi versions, that also includes a raker guide.

However, they are made in different versions for different Oregon chain.
For use on Stihl chain, you first have to pick the right one, and then modify it slightly.
The one that has the blue body will work for RS and RM in 3/8, once modified.

A stump vice may also be a good idea in the field.

I have one of the blue ones, and just picked up my first Stihl RS chain a couple weeks ago and would like to touch it up before it is too far gone. I like this chain better than the 73 LG that I have been using, but I cannot find the correct angles listed for the Stihl RS round ground chain. Any suggestions on the angle? What needs modified to the blue oregon/husky guide to make work on the stihl Rs chain? Thanks

Steve

 

[toolmaker]

CT Woodburner
Next time you are at your dealer, ask him for a link of brand-new chain, the biggest.
I'm talking about one cutting tooth
I got one from my dealer and Ithink it is .404" pitch, not sure
Keep it in your tool box, and use it for just looking at to get andmaintain the proper angles on the cutting teeth as you're filing.
Another guide that I use is the line that is impressed in the end of the cutting teeth
If you look closely (this is on Oregon chain) there is a line across the top of the tooth that is when the tooth is damn-near worn out.
I use this as a guide to keep the correct angle
Hope this helps

 

[Mr_Brushcutter]

Get some guides in that picture hers a Husky Roller guide and the STIHL sit on top guide. Personly i prefer the STIHL system in the workshop and the roller guide in the field. The roller guide sits at all the correct angles and all you havet to so is push the file across the middle. Back in the workshop i like the STIHL system that sits on top of the file combined with some calipers to accuratly set each tooth within 0.05mm of each other.

Oh if you taking a liking to the STIHL system in comes in a handy pouch that can connect to your belt! A timber vice that you leave hammered into a bit of wood is also quite a good investment as well.

 

[SawTroll]

... Any suggestions on the angle? What needs modified to the blue oregon/husky guide to make work on the stihl Rs chain? ...

Stihl recommends that the RS is filed with a 30 degree top-plate angle, with the file held level, while Oregon recommends a 25 degree top-plate and handle down for a 10 degree upward angle.
These excact angles is not critical, but I prefer to stay as close as possible to them, unless I know why I want it otherwise.

To fit loosely over the .063 Stihl chain I use (RSC and RM), I had to widen the slots that fit over the chain. This widening was done in such a way that the top-plate angle was changed to close to 30 degrees at the same time (it is easy to figure out how to do it when you look at the guide and chain from above).
Because of the shallower slope of the Stihl chain vs. Oregon, you may also need to deepen the forward slots on either side slightly to get the file at the right height for a new chain.
I haven't bothered about adjusting the rear slots by building them up, but I know that someone recommends it.

By the way, I don't usually use the guides when just touching up a chain in the woods. I usually use them in combination with a wise on a bench, after the days cutting is finished.

 

[woojr]

After sharpening chains for others I learned it was best not to include raker adjustment advice to new field sharpeners. Seemed they always thought it'll cut better with less raker. Also when starting out, its common to see less than uniform lengths which equates to odd sized rakers and a chain that wiggles and wears in the groove.
My advice was keep it out of the dirt and sharpen before it gets dull. As soon as performance slips, take the time to sharpen. That sharpening may only be 2 or 3 strokes per tooth and the file feels its way back into the same spot (making an easier feel for new filer to grasp).
Waiting a little longer may require many strokes and more opportunity for the file to get off line. As for guides, I've used a simple Oregon holder which keeps proper file height. After you do it awhile I like the twisting motion and feel you get from just the file.

 

[ozflea]

Here's a dual purpose cutter as well. Racing on Saturday and working on Monday.
John

Wouldn't last to long in a bit of decent Australian hardwood old mate keep it for racing and it's badly hooked as well.

Mc Bob.

 

[ozflea]

When you hook a tooth this deeply it makes the top plate too fine an edge that is too easily damaged and not very durable.

Mc Bob.

 

[Wood Butcher]

As was mentioned earlier, when you are learning what a sharpened chain looks like, get a section of new chain. I like a piece with both left and right cutters on it. However you sharpen your chain, compare it to the new cutters you have.

For the last few years I have been using a Dremel with the chain saw jig attachment, and I like it quite a bit! It is a bit faster too than a file in my experience. You need 120V to run them but just put a cheap inverter in your truck and plug it into that.