should shelf prices include tax?

[Banacanin]

To be honoust, I did not read the entire thread. Thought it would not be necessary to do so as the question asked was pretty clear and to the point, and the answer pretty simple.

I am engineer and a salesman, so my math skills are to be considered above average, but I don't like to do shopping with a calculator in my hand. Why people do not like a total price on the tag is beyond me, except if you are a business that can deduct taxes and VAT.

Also, there are people who do are exempt from paying taxes. It would be a little silly to have a price for one set of people and not another.

 

[AZLOGGER]

That's always been a peeve of mine--prices on the shelf that do not reflect what you pay. If there is an 8% tax, it should be reflected in the shelf tag, or, at the very least, both prices should be given. What do you think?

spacer:
Do you carry a cell phone with you, most of them have calculator functions built into them, if you do you can immediatly find out what you are going to pay. If you know what the sales tax % is just multiply the shelf price by that and add it into the shelf price, then you have what you have to pay. An example $500.00 (shelf price) +8% (tax)=$540.00 and even I can figure that in my head without a calculator. So I guess what I am saying is your Pet Peeve is total BS if you cannot figure out the final price.

Have a good day and get a real life!:deadhorse:

 

[spacemule]

spacer:
Do you carry a cell phone with you, most of them have calculator functions built into them, if you do you can immediatly find out what you are going to pay. If you know what the sales tax % is just multiply the shelf price by that and add it into the shelf price, then you have what you have to pay. An example $500.00 (shelf price) +8% (tax)=$540.00 and even I can figure that in my head without a calculator. So I guess what I am saying is your Pet Peeve is total BS if you cannot figure out the final price.

Have a good day and get a real life!:deadhorse:

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that all idiots think alike.

 

[spacemule]

Don't take the interweb personally Space. I'll make you a deal. You stop saying ridiculous things, and I'll stop disagreeing with them.

Fair enough?

Now...where is the clubhouse? Is Joat buying?

Answer my question.

 

[joatmon]

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that all idiots think alike.

Great introspection!

 

[spacemule]

Every product sold in europe has to mention the total price. Very transparent and fair to the customer. I agree with Space .

 

[spacemule]

Joat, it's like this. If I made a statement that it's wrong for women to be raped, these morons would say "Let her wear a condom. That way there's no harm done. You do know how to use a condom don't you?"

Yup. That'd be run of the mill for my detractors on here.

 

[joatmon]

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that all idiots think alike.

Great introspection!

Joat, it's like this. If I made a statement that it's wrong for women to be raped, these morons would say "Let her wear a condom. That way there's no harm done. You do know how to use a condom don't you?"

Yup. That'd be run of the mill for my detractors on here.

Rexy,

I'll make a few statements here:

1) I enjoy many of your posts. I'd buy you a beer if you were passing through.

2) You start many threads in this forum that are clearly off-topic type material.

3) You enjoy the sport of antagonizing and baiting.

4) When someone enters the fray unarmed, you delight.

5) When someone enters the ring prepared, you cry foul.

6) When a well-reasoned response is made to your posts, you seldom give it an in-depth, pointed response.

Now, I gave a very valid reason why "out-the-door" price tags would be burdensome in my location. As expected, no response from you. So, that means in conclusion:

7) You have NO desire to have a conversation. You desire to:

8) Pontificate, or

9) Sharpen your courtroom skills.

I still like you and would buy you that drink. I'd bring a taster though,

ole joat

 

[Banacanin]

Answer my question.

Again, who is conducting the tests and why do you take them routinely?

 

[Banacanin]

Joat, it's like this. If I made a statement that it's wrong for women to be raped, these morons would say "Let her wear a condom. That way there's no harm done. You do know how to use a condom don't you?"

Yup. That'd be run of the mill for my detractors on here.

Is this the guy who spoke against character assassination?

To be a detractor of Mathamagician is to be a pro rape moron!

 

[spacemule]

Spacey,

I'm glad you are a self-proclaimed math wizard because here's some facts I'd like you to examine and to make an appropriate comment if so inclined.

In my area, the sales and use tax is 6%, but if you are 85 or older, the rate is 5%. If I go into the city, or eat in a dining establishment, the rates are different. But, I'm going to keep this simple and use the 5% and 6% rate.

Now, let's say a business has Hershey bars at the sales counter. They cost $.75. So, here's the labeling requirements:

Let's say I buy 1 Hershey bar and I'm under 85 years of age.

$.75 for product, $.05 for tax, total price is $.80. Clear?

Now, if I buy 10 Hershey bars:

$7.50 for product, $.45 for tax, total price is $7.95. Clear?

Let's say I buy 1 Hershey bar and I'm 85 years of age or older.

$.75 for product, $.04 for tax, total price is $.79. Clear?

Now, if I buy 10 Hershey bars:

$7.50 for product, $.38 for tax, total price is $7.88. Clear?

That's the simple example. If ole Spacey get's his way, the shelf pricers will be in hot demand. Maybe that's from where these new jobs are coming.

ole joat

Ok, you want a well reasoned response? I got the impression you were jerking my chain.

1. Your tax system is screwed up if it has different sales tax for different age groups
2. I concede that a system in your state could not be implimented as easily as a system in most states. In fact, yours is the first legitimate opposition I've seen on this thread.
3. Most shelf pricing is done with computers and printers, and programming them to put both prices in would be a relatively simple task, and once set up, would cause no greater inconvenience in pricing. Set the percentage multiplyers in the computer, and the only thing needed to change pricing would be one number, with the required prices computed automatically. You do know how to do spreadsheets, don't you? ;-)

 

[joatmon]

Ok, you want a well reasoned response? I got the impression you were jerking my chain.

1. Your tax system is screwed up if it has different sales tax for different age groups
2. I concede that a system in your state could not be implimented as easily as a system in most states. In fact, yours is the first legitimate opposition I've seen on this thread.
3. Most shelf pricing is done with computers and printers, and programming them to put both prices in would be a relatively simple task, and once set up, would cause no greater inconvenience in pricing. Set the percentage multiplyers in the computer, and the only thing needed to change pricing would be one number, with the required prices computed automatically. You do know how to do spreadsheets, don't you? ;-)

Rexy,

The system in my state has a base rate of 4%. Years ago, they added 1% for schools with people 85 and over exempted. Each county can add up to 2% to the basic rate. There are special taxes in several areas of the state and they are called "dining" and "entertainment" taxes. Food, but only non-prepared food, from grocery stores is not taxed. Drugs aren't taxed. And .... drum roll please .... for three days a week or two before school begins .... we have a "tax-free" spree, but only for "school" items. School items are an exhaustive list that would surely puzzle you. This is just off the top of my head.

Now, I've never heard anyone complain about being able to determine the "out-the-door" price. However, I've heard many complain of taxes and the general cost of things.

ole joat

 

[spacemule]

Per your example:

 

[joatmon]

Per your example:

Rexy,

I like that! Now, if you buy 10, according to the tax code, it won't always be 10 times the posted price. I think that would lead to confusion and the chance of a law suit. Oh .... I see where this is going.

Remember, this is for Store "A", the store "B" in the city has a different rate.

Back to Excel,

ole joat

 

[spacemule]

Remember, this is for Store "A", the store "B" in the city has a different rate.

Can you explain to me how the stores, being in different states, ring the purchases up at the register if the prices are different between stores?

 

[spacemule]

I like that! Now, if you buy 10, according to the tax code, it won't always be 10 times the posted price. I think that would lead to confusion and the chance of a law suit. Oh .... I see where this is going.

In your example, the person would pay less tax percentage wise for 10 versus 1. Somehow, I don't see anyone complaining about that.

 

[eyolf]

Most, but not all of us are probably accustomed to the sales tax schemes where we live.

Minnesota's originla scheme was supposed to last all of about 30 months to take care of a temporary problem. Its now 246% of the original "temporary" situation.

Is that what we're arguing about?

I am still a little peeved at a local shop that is adding 20% "shipping" onto everything. I understand why...he has to pay the light bill on fewer sales, but
1) I don't like paying tax on a "shipping" charge
2) it feels like he's laughing at me while he cheats me. If He wants an extra $3 for a loop of chain, fine. But don't post a sign saying $16, then charge me $19

I already had a discussion with the manager: bag it price on a 2171 is around $700. Add tax to get $750. Add 20% and tax on the 140, and now we're at $900, and change.

That's enough to lose a lot of sales. And soon I won't have a Jonsered shop within a reasonable distance.


Is that waht we're discussing?

 

[edisto]

3) You enjoy the sport of antagonizing and baiting.

4) When someone enters the fray unarmed, you delight.

5) When someone enters the ring prepared, you cry foul.

6) When a well-reasoned response is made to your posts, you seldom give it an in-depth, pointed response.

Now, I gave a very valid reason why "out-the-door" price tags would be burdensome in my location. As expected, no response from you. So, that means in conclusion:

7) You have NO desire to have a conversation. You desire to:

8) Pontificate, or

9) Sharpen your courtroom skills.

I still like you and would buy you that drink. I'd bring a taster though,

ole joat

Pegged that one. I'll do the tasting joat (as long as you aren't making the drinks).

I hate to detract from your feelings of persecution Space, but I still fail to see any advantage to your proposal, and and problem with the current scheme.

You admit that the price is not hard to calculate, so you must still be convinced it is false advertising. I explained why it wasn't, but you chose to sidestep it with the "you're a meany" defense.

eyolf's example, however, IS false advertising.

 

[parrisw]

Joat, it's like this. If I made a statement that it's wrong for women to be raped, these morons would say "Let her wear a condom. That way there's no harm done. You do know how to use a condom don't you?"

Yup. That'd be run of the mill for my detractors on here.

Where the hell is this going now? Moron's eh? Am I gona have to call you that 3 letter word again? That made you run to mommy last time.

 

[themaddhatter]

I think that taxes should NEVER be hidden.

IF you never see it, you don't think about it. The .gov just jacks it up more and more, and you don't really realize it. Just thinking it is "cost of doing business" sort of thing.

You know, when income tax started out in 1917 I think (maybe a year or two off), you didn't get the tax garnished directly from your wages. Instead, the .gov got paid their 1% of your net income (yeah, that's right: congress ratified the 16th amendment with 1% income tax rate) when you filed your 1040 form. At some point in time, they changed the system to where the tax was taken out during each paycheck. That way, the .gov got money in a more steady pattern, and effectively confused the working masses on what was being paid. Then, .gov proceeded to crank those tax rates up, since you HAD to pay it, and couldn't control it as easily. Now we pay a little more (I think I am at ~ 40% state & fed right now) and still have no control, and only get any idea what they are taking from us.

Just to depress you further, do this exercise: figure out what you pay in taxes every year. It isn't easy, because the system purposely makes it hard to figure out. If you keep track for an average month, you can work from that. Just a list to keep eyes open
-FICA
-State income
-SSN (it is a tax, because if you are under 40, you will never see a dime - accept it)
-City, county, or local tax (many have them)

Now, you have your "gross" money you already have taxed. Now, take your other taxes:
-Property tax
-Sales tax
-Look at your utility bills, and add up all the taxes in there (especially phone, cell & internet - FCC taxes especially)
-Fuel tax (just track your gallons in a month & calculate)
-Anything shipped (look at the bill & find the taxes there - usually more than any sales tax topped on end)

Now, these "post-tax taxes" piss me off - I already PAID a tax, and I am getting taxed again, so it is actually compounded. So even though you pay say 6% tax on buying something, you are actually "costing" you 6% on a salary already reduced 40%. Your buying power has dropped to half. It is really like an 8% tax, because you have so much less gross compared to your net income to work with.

When it is all said & done, you are paying (usually) over 65-75% taxes pretty easily.

So say you are making $50K a year. Now, someone has somehow pilfered about $30K of your money, and effectively left you to survive on $20K to pay for housing/transport/food/fuel/clothing/CAD.

Back to my point: if everyone had to physically write a check every April 15th for $15K to the feds and $10K to their state, you can be assured that taxes would be a highly debated political point.

So don't accept hidden taxes, because it will just be used to crank the rates higher.