Side work?

[maloufstree]

Hey everyone love the site and all the info that is provided, I get on every couple of days but guess and read the topics but don't post much myself.....anyways just wondering what everyone thinks about your help doing side work. I live in a rural community where I have to serve our whole county to be able to operate 5 days a week. My two full time employees of 5 years do some mowing and landscaping on the side. I let them take a set of climbing gear and a 200t to cut an limb here or there. Last weekend I was driving down the road and I see them working on some trees....20 plus trees (3 miles from our yard) and thought tp myself I not going to say anything just not going to let them carry any gear home anymore. Now the more Ive thought about it the more upset I've become....What do I do?

Sorry post is so long (BLOOD IS BOILING)

Thanks Craig

 

[tomtrees58]

cut the cord don't lend eq you are cutting your throat:greenchainsaw:tom trees

 

[B.Secord]

I agree with Tom, they are abusing your generosity, on the equipment lending. I would let any employee go that did side (tree) work on their days off.

If you trained them is all aspects of the tree service industry, their next step is to start their own operation and compete with you. I wonder IF they have their own insurance? It is possible that they are doing the work under YOUR name and being paid in CASH????

Hey if ya don't mind them having their hand in your pocket, keep 'em! I would fire their a$$es! Sounds like they have little regard for your business, I wouldn't be very happy either!

 

[maloufstree]

I have never had a bit of trouble out of these guys in five years, there not perfect, they've been late a few times, disagreement or two but at the end of the day they had always respected me as their boss. They run the jobs the way i want them ran, and in return I feel that I take good care of them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I just hate to let somebody go when Ive never had to talk to them about this.(Who knows how many times its happened)If letting them go is the only option,its the only option

 

[B.Secord]

I feel for ya. Five years is a long time to have any employee. I am guessing they see or hear the gross price you get for doing a tree job, and figure you are gettin' the gravey. Are they around to service the equipment, quote the jobs, or even appreciate the time it takes to do the payroll stuff?

Makes me wonder what the problem is with them BUYING their own saw, and other gear! I hear times are tough down your way. Employees competing with the boss is NOT what you need.

I used to refer work to other reputable companies, that I didn't have time to get to right away. After a couple years I discovered that I was gettin' stabbed in the back, and NEVER had one of the companies call and thank me for the referral. I quit that practice REAL quick. I have set the standards for my operation VERY high. Much to my dismay, other companies that I had heard were like mind, failed to impress me with their work or their ethics.

If you have the work to keep you and yours comfortable, I guess guys moonlighting isn't a biggy, but they should pobably do it with their OWN equipment, IMO.

 

[Bur Oak]

Well, I think this is a problem. And communication is typically key for problem solving. So you might have an opportunity to test your problem solving communication skills.

I would start out by sitting the workers down and explaining the problem from my perspective. Then I would ask them if they think a problem exists, and if so what it is. I would then propose a few solutions from my perspective, and if they agreed that a problem existed, ask for solutions from their perspective. The results are a possible outline for the road forward. Of course, a couple times a year a followup conversation is appropriate to ensure behaviors are consistent with any mutually agreed solutions.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

I wouldnt fire them if they are good employees overall. I would definatly let them know that when you agreed to lend them equip that it was for "a limb or two" not a $2000 job. And then tell them that if they are getting that much work they can buy there own tools.

 

[maloufstree]

Thank each and every one of you for your responses and please keep'em coming. I wont see or have a talk with them until monday. B.Secord I do have enough work to be comfortable even with the economy the way it is the bulk of my work is under 20 miles but I have to have a 30 to 35 mile radius to work constant 5 day weeks

 

[treemandan]

lend? Lend? LEND?! O M G ! First of all... oh nevermind but I will note this: You can borrow my tools if I can %$#@... like I said, nevermind.
Sure if it was something at thier own residence but then I would just probably help them out anyway but that's about it. I would never think to borrow my employers tools in the fashion mentioned.
Once I saw this guy borrow a 4x4 hub socket which he broke and tried to weld back together, he gave it back like that, was locked in a bathroom and had bottle rockets shot under the door for about ten minutes at him. There was no place to hide in there.

 

[Treetom]

Wutterya gonna do? A guy has to earn a living. I consider it none of my business what a guy does on his own time. As long as it doesn't affect his performance on my jobs or reflect on my business. But if he's earning money with my equipment, I get a piece of the pie. And if clients see these boys working for you, then working on their own, your company is being represented. Your good reputation may play a part in them landing jobs in the first place. If they do a good job, good for you. If they screw up, bad for you because "those are the guys that work for Maloufstree." You're invested in these side jobs in one way or the other. Hope you work something out.

 

[Tree Pig]

A good employee is going to be loyal to his employer. Doing a side job for their family or close friend is one thing and maybe understandable. But seeking outside money and using your equipment is unthinkable to me.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It seems to me that the side work is just part of the business.

The questions you need to ask are:

how did they get the work, was it on one of your jobs?

As stated above, is your name used on the job at all? Liability big time.

Do you understand the liability you open yourself up to by allowing equipment out the door, even for "a limb or two?"

What you need to do is write up a few short paragraphs to the effect:

The employee shall not take any equipment for personal use. Such use shall be considered theft, and use for company property for personal gain shall be considered theft from the company.

The employee shall not compete with the company in the companies area of operations. The employee shall not represent himself as the company for personal gain, and any such misrepresentation shall be considered theft from the company.

Any employee who sells work for the company, conducts the work for the company, on company time, shall receive bonus compensation.​

I have heard of cases where an employer gets stuck with a big W/C case because he loaned or rented equipment.

Milwaukee County had a huge settlement in a case where a lady was killed by a mattress falling off a county owned trailer that an employee borrowed.

The county was going to loose the case because there was a tacit or implied understanding that employees could borrow equipment for personal use.

 

[StihlRockin']

I let them take a set of climbing gear and a 200t to cut an limb here or there.

What do I do?

I would NEVER let anyone borrow my equipment... NEVER! It's my business and lively hood. To say is only a policy with me and nothing personal. I've had a few ask me over the years and I've borrowed ropes, but I since change and I don't borrow gear out anymore.

So what you should do is obvious to me. Also, soon some day, one or both those workers will be doing work for themselves instead of you!

StihlRockin'

 

[fishercat]

i'd simply have a little caht with them.

maybe if they are ready to do big jobs like that on their own,they're are ready to pony up and buy their own equipment to do those jobs.

i'd explain the loan a tool program is over since it is being taken advantage of if you decide to keep them.firing them is a tough call,since i don't know your situation 100%

 

[teamtree]

I would have a strict no side-work policy.

1. It is in their best interest to bring that work to you and run it through your business. If you are trying to keep them busy and they are under cutting the market by doing it for cash on the side it makes it harder for you to get the price you need.

2. You could be held liable for workers comp claims should they get hurt. By not saying anything it could be determined that you are encouraging them to work on the side. It is not your guys who will sue you, it will be their families.

3. You could also be held liable for any property damage claims. If they are using your equipment it could be determined you are involved in teh transaction. You have to be really careful. Since they work for you it could be determined your guys are acting as agents for you company. A little business law education will scare the hell out of you.

4. If they are going to do it for friends and family, they should notify you of the work to be done.

5. Discuss it with them. Offer them a bonus for any work that they bring in. It will be in your best interest to develop them as crew leaders and salesmen. If not, you may be looking at your future competition.

Did you bid on the work that they were completing?

Is it work you would have done?

 

[John464]

I would have a strict no side-work policy.

same here. I have fired dozens of employees for this. I dont even lend out my equipment to my help. If they have something that needs done at their home we as a company will do it for a very reduced rate. Besides their own home, each employee is required to pass out company business cards should someone request tree care. Landscaping they can have, but when they are on my time they are not a landscaper and soliciting is a no no. I have caught a few sneaky bastards passing out their own cards to my customers saying " next time call me I will do it cheaper and Im the one doing the work anyway". Lets just say I made sure every other tree care company in the area knew their antics and to not hire them.

Every employee I hire is aware of the co. policy. Side work is like stealing. If their intentions are to start their own business. They can gather leads on their own time. Spend for advertising, equipment, insurance, etc and by the time they do all that its best they go out on their own anyhow.

Side work gets you the boot, even for a small $100 tree job. Its about building lifetime customers who call you for the $100 job this time and next time the $3,000 job.

 

[Tree Student]

Craig,

I have had this happen to me before so I know what you are going through, I quit lending my equipment to my help but if they need something done then I will take the truck and saws to their site and help them cut a few things but nothing large. When I caught one of my guys competing with me I waited until the job was finished and asked their customer about who did their tree work and what they thought about them because I needed some work done. This will tell you if they are using your name and you can even find out how much they charged to see if they are trying to undercut your bids or if they used you or your customers as references. It might turn out that it's a family relative that they are trying to help out, as Stihl-O-Matic said, we are only seeing one side of the issue at the moment.

In my case it turned out they were using my company name to bid the jobs and even advertise on craigslist using my insurance and reputation but just a different phone number. I was so furious that I gave the guy some unpaid time off because he violated my trust by lieing to me but we came to an understanding after we sat down a talked about the consequences of his actions. John Paul's suggestion on the written no compete clause sounds like a good preventative measure so if they are caught doing it again it's automatic termination.

Good help is very hard to find around here so when they become an exceptional employee, or even anything above average, then I try to keep them on the payroll. One of the ways I try to prevent this from happening again is by offering a sales commission if we get the job so they are getting paid on both ends.

Hope this give some insight from your side of the fence.

James

 

[Blakesmaster]

I don't think you can blame a man for stepping in and doing a job on his own. That being said, he should NOT be using your equipment or even remotely affiliating himself with your company. You need to stop those two things. Other than that let him run. Personally, I climb part time for a much bigger operation than I own. It gets tricky from time to time when we're competing on bids but good communication solves it. Neither me or my boss need each other but we've come to an understanding that working together can benefit both of us...for now.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I just hate to let somebody go when Ive never had to talk to them about this.

I think that's your answer. If you've allowed it up til now, you've helped create this monster, so you have some responsibility here. It's not right to fire them when you've never said boo about it before now.

Not only that, I think they'd be on good legal ground to sue you for wrongful termination if you can them with no warning.


I think it's time to have a talk with them. Explain that they are takking money out of your pocket. Lay out the new rules.

THEN you have reason to can them if they keep it up.

Just make sure you've cooled down before you have your talk. Remember, YOU helped create the situation. They might have no clue that they are crossing the line.

 

[ozzy42]

I don't think you can blame a man for stepping in and doing a job on his own. That being said, he should NOT be using your equipment or even remotely affiliating himself with your company. You need to stop those two things. Other than that let him run. Personally, I climb part time for a much bigger operation than I own. It gets tricky from time to time when we're competing on bids but good communication solves it. Neither me or my boss need each other but we've come to an understanding that working together can benefit both of us...for now.

I think we have talked about this deal before.
I have a simular situation where I have a buddy ,and we have worked together on a few jobs,or one would do the climbing on the others job if one of us weren't well enough to climb for some reason,or do stumps for each other if one's grinder was down.
So far it has worked out ok.
But it can be hard to be friend with a competitor.

As far as the side job goes,spending a half Sunday cutting at auntie emm's house would not bother me..................A 2000$ job.........I'd be furious.

I don't know if I would fire them,but it would be explained in no uncertain terms that it will not be tolerated in the future.