Howard Justice
ArboristSite Operative
Dumb Question. Some Pro tree guys advising use of skip chains w bigger logs. Any guidelines? I presume this is for bigger saws like 461, 500 and 661? And Husky equivalents… thank you.
Skip Chain - when and why?
- Thread starter Howard Justice
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Any saw when pushing the max recommended bar length or fully buried in the log where the CC saw you choose is working hard in the species type of wood. It helps to keep rpm higher due to less cutter contact per revolution with the wood compared to a non skip chain. Also buried helps to clear chips out of the kerf.
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Also few teeth to sharpen. Everybody(?) here is super super concerned with speed of wood cutting, hence all the bragging of porting, base gasket removals, bark boxes, muffler mods, higher flow air filters, etc. Why not save some time in sharpening? Time is time, in the cut or between cuts, or between cutting sessions.
I like them for noodling. They make long noodles.
Howard Justice
ArboristSite Operative
Well said. Thank you.
hwrdpromac7900
ArboristSite Operative
I only have one ported saw. I'm not overly concerned with cutting speed.
In the very soft wood we have in Montana skip works great and less teeth to sharpen with a longer bar.
With my 400c and a 25" bar skip cuts a bit slower than full comp. That doesn't bother me a bit when I am sharpening the chain.
With my 400c and a 25" bar skip cuts a bit slower than full comp. That doesn't bother me a bit when I am sharpening the chain.
It doesn't have to be either or... you can do all of the above.
Tree service I do maintenance for has gone to full skip at 20” and above. Why?
half the sharpening time at the job site; cuts about as fast…when sharp; lighter weight; cheaper to buy.
I run skip for 28” and up for all the above.
half the sharpening time at the job site; cuts about as fast…when sharp; lighter weight; cheaper to buy.
I run skip for 28” and up for all the above.
I use skip chain when using a longer bar than the saw really "likes" ... to keep the RPM up. You want the saw to be running at its normal max recommended speed to get the most power out of it. You could (try to) do the same thing by slowing down how fast the bar goes through the wood, but that can be tricky/difficult because a sharp chain "self-feeds" (pulls itself into the wood) and if you've got too many chisels all trying to take a bite of wood at the same time, the saw will bog. A skip chain lets the saw run faster without bogging because it's doing less work per revolution of the chain. There's less "braking effect" on the chain because the chain has fewer teeth cutting at any given time.
It's kind of like changing propeller pitch on a boat when the boat is loaded down with weight (or towing another boat or towing a skier) -- a slower-pitched prop will allow the engine to get up to its max rpm (and max horsepower) better than a faster-pitched prop, which will cause the engine to lug and cause all kinds of other inefficiencies if it can't get up to its designed-for rpm. A rule of thumb for boat props is that you want to be able to get the engine up to max recommended RPM under load. If you can't get it up to that RPM, you're probably over-propped (too much pitch in the prop) and if you can exceed the max safe RPM under load, you may be under-propped.
Or think of it like trying to pull away from a stop light in 10th gear on your bike instead of first gear. Taking teeth out of the chainsaw chain is like taking teeth out of your bike chainring (the front, or drive, sprocket). It increases the mechanical advantage, allowing your bike (or your saw) to get up to speed faster. (You can also increase mechanical advantage of a saw by using a smaller drive sprocket, but a skip chain is easier/faster to change and also offers more of a "gear change" -- you won't find a drive sprocket that's half the size of your normal one, which is what you get if you cut the number of chain cutters in half.)
The downside of using a longer bar than your saw is designed for is that your bar oiler may not dispense bar oil fast enough to keep the bar sufficiently oiled.
It's kind of like changing propeller pitch on a boat when the boat is loaded down with weight (or towing another boat or towing a skier) -- a slower-pitched prop will allow the engine to get up to its max rpm (and max horsepower) better than a faster-pitched prop, which will cause the engine to lug and cause all kinds of other inefficiencies if it can't get up to its designed-for rpm. A rule of thumb for boat props is that you want to be able to get the engine up to max recommended RPM under load. If you can't get it up to that RPM, you're probably over-propped (too much pitch in the prop) and if you can exceed the max safe RPM under load, you may be under-propped.
Or think of it like trying to pull away from a stop light in 10th gear on your bike instead of first gear. Taking teeth out of the chainsaw chain is like taking teeth out of your bike chainring (the front, or drive, sprocket). It increases the mechanical advantage, allowing your bike (or your saw) to get up to speed faster. (You can also increase mechanical advantage of a saw by using a smaller drive sprocket, but a skip chain is easier/faster to change and also offers more of a "gear change" -- you won't find a drive sprocket that's half the size of your normal one, which is what you get if you cut the number of chain cutters in half.)
The downside of using a longer bar than your saw is designed for is that your bar oiler may not dispense bar oil fast enough to keep the bar sufficiently oiled.
Howard Justice
ArboristSite Operative
Haha!! Spaghetti!!!
Howard Justice
ArboristSite Operative
Yep and if you don’t do this for a living …. Then sharpening time in the field can require more time.
Howard Justice
ArboristSite Operative
Most informative. Thank you. And that’s why we have granny gears on our mountain bikes haha I like your analogies!
Look at this, not a singel stop in the clutch cover. With skip chain.
Less teeth to sharpen but doesn't that also mean that less teeth are doing more work individually? therefore dull faster than full comp chain right?
Personally I'd become more proficient at filing than just solely running less teeth to mask slow filing.
In the softwood we cut chains stay sharp quite a long time if the iperstornis diligent to keep it out of the dirt.
Before I moved out west there were alot of things I scoffed at in regards to saws used out west, but after living here it all makes sense.
Fewer…
Hello. The differens betwen fullcomp and skipchain is very little, when it comes to sharpening. They hold The edge about The same time. But I love skip because it cut without any stops, chips flying away. Look at my video.
MAWoodsman
ArboristSite Member
I put a skip chain on my ported saw, so get get the best of both worlds lol
