Square chain, I ain't ever going back to round!

[watsonr]

Called the guys over at Silvey, what a nice bunch they are. Answered questions I didn't expect them to, technical type questions....especially since the grinder was used. But business is business and they were a great help!

Did some more adjustment today and got it to self feed by changing the angle of the side plate. Shes pulling a pretty nice chip, this is not a noodling cut, straight across the grain. Some are near 3" long!

Test log

It was hollow and caught the chips easier that way.

Not a great picture but this was the test chain, maybe you can see it well enough?

 

[paccity]

square is the cat's azz . after the 1st of the year i'm on a seriose hunt for one. the only thing about getting a nice hand filed chain is when you tear it up hard it allmost makes you cry. i dont have the paicents to try and get it back . the sall company's like silvey are good people. not some big corp thats just lookin for another buck to squeeze out of you.

 

[WadePatton]

why WOOD anyone go back

if they have the grinder?

I buy square and I fight to keep 'em square, but i do too much field sharpening.

I've located 2 silvey's this side of the river-one local and can't get either of them to sell. I'm going to hound the local guy until he at least prices the dang thing.

this is another one them things that if i had machine tools, i'd build one. i got time and steel...(silvey wants cash).

so i hope to barn-garage-estate find one someday or some other grinder that can be teased into cutting the sq tooth.

besides cutting on the landing or other dirty wood, i don't understand any desire to use any thing but a sq. grind.

 

[Metals406]

Welcome new convert! Your membership dues are due quarterly.

Clean out your gullets like shown below. . . You can thank me later.

A 5/32" round file works great.

 

[watsonr]

Got a closer shot? Want to see the corner and are you using a Silvey wheel?

 

[Cedarkerf]

Welcome to the club. My Razursharp II has gone up $300 since I bought it on sale 4 years ago. Some people say square isnt faster but mine is for sure. Have fun.

 

[promac850]

My 3/8" pitch chain on the 850 made chips about 3" long as well... cross grain... round ground chisel chain... it did that until it unfortunately met a hidden nail... it still cuts pretty good given that some teeth have chunks missing out of the top plate...

It made huge noodles until it hit the nail as well, at least 6" long...

Now, I can't wait to try .404" on the 790 after I get that thing together... someday I'll have to find a saw that runs 3/4" pitch chain...


As for square grind, what do you do when you need to sharpen it out in the woods? Swap loops and hope you have enough loops for the day or hit it with the goofy file? I imagine it'd take a lot longer to sharpen it up by hand if you needed to in the woods...

Is the only benefit of square ground faster cuts? How long does the chain last before it needs to be sharpened? Is it any good in dirtier wood conditions such as a log that's been laying in dirt for a year?

 

[WadePatton]

Is the only benefit of square ground faster cuts? How long does the chain last before it needs to be sharpened? Is it any good in dirtier wood conditions such as a log that's been laying in dirt for a year?

it's like adding 20cc's to your saw.
it cuts more efficiently.
it's a bear to hand file, but can be touched up with square file.
if you use a grinder anyway, it's no-brainer to me. faster cuts, less fuel, for same work, or more cuts per day-how ever you want to slice it.

I buy square, and when I can no longer keep it cutting faster than round, i start round-filing it.

That does it...i'm going to make a grinder from junkyard scrap...it's a freeking motorized grinder and a chain hickie and a few pivots, sets and stops. I must take advantage of self-unemployment!

see http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/189193.htm#post3367127

 

[mdavlee]

If you do it enough touching up square when dull from wood is about the same as round. I have a razor sharp now and had a swing arm. I want to try a pro sharp but the $$$$$ is a little more than I want to pay for a grinder.

Watson if you want post the pictures I sent you in the pm. I'm on my phone right now and can't get it to copy and paste.

 

[Rounder]

As for square grind, what do you do when you need to sharpen it out in the woods? Swap loops and hope you have enough loops for the day or hit it with the goofy file? I imagine it'd take a lot longer to sharpen it up by hand if you needed to in the woods...



Is the only benefit of square ground faster cuts? How long does the chain last before it needs to be sharpened? Is it any good in dirtier wood conditions such as a log that's been laying in dirt for a year?[/QUOTE]


It's just as easy/fast as round to touch up once you've got it down.....like riding a bike. Just takes a little practice, and a pair of reading glasses in your pocket. I figure with full skip, it's just as quick to touch up as it is to hike all the way to the pack and swap chains.

It's smoother and bores much nicer. It dulls much quicker in dirty ####. Not worth a #### for road trees. Full-comp does help with this a little. - Sam

 

[Rounder]

View attachment 214278

My cheapo gullet machine. Works great.

 

[wyk]

It's amazing what a properly set up square chain can do

[video=youtube_share;X8uNt0CqU0c]http://youtu.be/X8uNt0CqU0c[/video]

An oldie but goodie. Full skip, deep gullets, low rakers, thinned cutters and rakers, standard angle grind.

 

[Cedarkerf]

View attachment 214289View attachment 214289

My 3/8" pitch chain on the 850 made chips about 3" long as well... cross grain... round ground chisel chain... it did that until it unfortunately met a hidden nail... it still cuts pretty good given that some teeth have chunks missing out of the top plate...

It made huge noodles until it hit the nail as well, at least 6" long...

Now, I can't wait to try .404" on the 790 after I get that thing together... someday I'll have to find a saw that runs 3/4" pitch chain...


As for square grind, what do you do when you need to sharpen it out in the woods? Swap loops and hope you have enough loops for the day or hit it with the goofy file? I imagine it'd take a lot longer to sharpen it up by hand if you needed to in the woods...

Is the only benefit of square ground faster cuts? How long does the chain last before it needs to be sharpened? Is it any good in dirtier wood conditions such as a log that's been laying in dirt for a year?

How dull do your chains get in a day? Square isnt for dirty wood and I wouldnt say round chisel is either. Thats semi chisel work. If your droppin clean trees usually 2 or 3 chains should be enough for a days cuttin . Ive had some days cuttin Cedar especiely a single chain was sharper at the end of a day than others call fresh sharp. Heres a couple pics of a tree bucked for some friends single chain cuttin almost like fresh when done. Easily filled 2 and a half trucks to cab height

 

[Cedarkerf]

Couldnt get to load in last post

 

[mdavlee]

I've ran as much as 6 tanks through a 395 with a 41" full comp square in oak and it wasn't really dull then but I threw it on the grinder since it was off the saw.

 

[Metals406]

I've ran as much as 6 tanks through a 395 with a 41" full comp square in oak and it wasn't really dull then but I threw it on the grinder since it was off the saw.

I've said it before on here, but I've cut 3 cord of DF and Larch on one sharpening, and that was yarded, dirty logs.

A guy can avoid a lot of gunk in the bark with cutting technique. Now you hardwood guys that have hollows and crotches embedded with ****. . . That's another story.

 

[Metals406]

A big problem we have here in Georgia is termites that carry dirt up the trunk. I often find soil particles as far as six feet up the insides of tree trunks. It sucks! ......and to make it worse then the stump must be cut low for stump grinding. There is only so much technique that can be utlilized when it comes to not pulling that kind of dirt into the cut. On the outside of the trunk I'll often axe off dirty sections for the base cut especially if it is in danger of being pulled into the cut. Of course tramp metal is another curse in residential cutting.

Yeah man!

That's why I was semi-excluding you hardwood dudes. . . Ya got a whole different ballgame to deal with. Coons filling holes, termites, metal filled yard trees, kids climbing and stuffing crotches full of dirt and mud.

I ain't saying square is a do-all chain profile at all. Slamm is cutting them river trees all the time, and they're stuffed full of silt/sand and all kind of junk.

Semi chisel is definitely the way to go in a lot of situations. :msp_thumbup:

 

[mdavlee]

Square and semi chisel have their place both for me. I just recently tried some semi chisel in 3/8" and it seems to cut well in dirty firewood. Bucking logs where they land i'll stick to square.

 

[watsonr]

Sorry, was busy with guest's last night, pics as requested;

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/chainsaw/170447d1296498996-020-jpg

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/chainsaw/170448d1296499005-028-jpg

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/chainsaw/177974d1301451014-095-jpg

I can see that you did touch the tie straps slightly so that leads to ask. As the chain wears and you resharpen you need to adjust for wear by moving the tooth up, won't that get into the strap even more? You chain bar looks almost vertical at zero degrees, meaning that your using more angle on the wheels side plate bevel? Mine is near 5 degrees of backward tilt and the chain is held nearer the back of the bar about 1" from the exact top. Guess it doesn't really matter if you can get the tooth angle right and not hurt the strap?

The Silvey guys said the shaping block should be set at 20* to the top plate and that should yield a 3* side plate angle, is your shaping blocks set to 20*?

And should I worry about top plate angle, looks more like 35*?

Thanks,

 

[cutforfun]

there has been one on portland craigslist for a few weeks