Starting a diesel in freezing weather ?
- Thread starter Madman Mark
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
97 dodge cummins turbo diesel here.... what works great for me is keeping two hot batteries.
when starting cummins has heater grids, you wait for grid light to go off. then slightly depress throttle while cranking.
mine usually starts within 1 second of cranking. then I'll fast idle at 1250 rpm for a few minutes to warm. opening up throttle during startup makes a huge difference on how many cranks it takes to start.
I've got a block heater and try to keep it plugged in. cummins starts fine without block heater, just takes longer to warm up.
when starting cummins has heater grids, you wait for grid light to go off. then slightly depress throttle while cranking.
mine usually starts within 1 second of cranking. then I'll fast idle at 1250 rpm for a few minutes to warm. opening up throttle during startup makes a huge difference on how many cranks it takes to start.
I've got a block heater and try to keep it plugged in. cummins starts fine without block heater, just takes longer to warm up.
1wildthing
ArboristSite Member
The first concern that I have when somebody says their diesel won't start is gelling. Especially this time of year. And just adding anti-gel won't help your lines of filters. The only way around gelling is to run the right kind of fuel, or add the anti-gel immediately when you fill up.
I haven't had problems starting my skidder (1970ish JD) in temp down to -10F. But if starting it was hard in the mornings, I would add a timer and auto-start system instead of trying to use a block heater. Skidders are almost never parked where they can be plugged in, and other types of block heaters are more complicated, and hard to find.
Just set up a timer (or thermostat) and attatch it to the start relay. These are popular on trucks and other equipment in cold climates. You can set it to start itself every two hours (or when it gets cold) and run for 15 minutes. The motor won't get cold, and it saves fuel over running all night.
I haven't had problems starting my skidder (1970ish JD) in temp down to -10F. But if starting it was hard in the mornings, I would add a timer and auto-start system instead of trying to use a block heater. Skidders are almost never parked where they can be plugged in, and other types of block heaters are more complicated, and hard to find.
Just set up a timer (or thermostat) and attatch it to the start relay. These are popular on trucks and other equipment in cold climates. You can set it to start itself every two hours (or when it gets cold) and run for 15 minutes. The motor won't get cold, and it saves fuel over running all night.
what you all want is a "battery blanket" or "warmer". Its a insulating wrap that either runs off the battery (or 2nd battery) or plugs into a 110v outlet. draws very little juice, does not drain the battery. They are stock on our CDN Forces winter vehicles and the big mining vehicles in the North of Canada, where tmeps can get to - 70 or lower Celcius. Keeps the battery WARM, and makes starting instant even in ultra low temps.
^ the one pictured plugs into 110V, but there are others (bigger models too) that are 12V or 24V
^ the one pictured plugs into 110V, but there are others (bigger models too) that are 12V or 24V
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
046 said:
I agree. Until someone trys it, they'll never know. Like Shoerfast said, diesels don't have a throttle plate but... I can't explain why it works and I'm not going to try to guess why it works. It just does.
SmokinDodge
Powered by Cummins
What works best? An engine with a fuel system that isn't worn out fitted with a properly working preheat system ie. glow plugs, intake screen heater and a block heater that's plugged in three hours before hand. Cycle the glow plugs/heater twice and crank it up.
Reality? The block heater cord was ripped off last year and about half the glow plugs work, maybe. All covered under three feet of snow and it hasn't ran in four months.
The next two examples are for non working preheat systems:
Crank it for 10-15 seconds to build oil pressure and generate some heat in the cylinders and not long enough to run down the batteries. Whiff of Either towards the intake and crank for five more seconds. Another whiff and it starts, if not repeat process. I hate just spraying either into a cranking engine as it is usually a good way to load one cylinder up real good so it pre ignites and breaks rings. I only use 80% either, that other stuff is only good to clean parts.
A rag dampend with gasoline over the air intake fastened in a manner that when the engine starts it is not drawn in works well also.
My JD 4320 will NOT start under 40 without the block heater or Either, and it has new batteries, injection pump and starter, my father's 4020 is the same way. Some engines are just cold natured. My dozer powered with a Detroit Diesel with fire down to 20, anything below that requires a little help from the either bunny.
Reality? The block heater cord was ripped off last year and about half the glow plugs work, maybe. All covered under three feet of snow and it hasn't ran in four months.
The next two examples are for non working preheat systems:
Crank it for 10-15 seconds to build oil pressure and generate some heat in the cylinders and not long enough to run down the batteries. Whiff of Either towards the intake and crank for five more seconds. Another whiff and it starts, if not repeat process. I hate just spraying either into a cranking engine as it is usually a good way to load one cylinder up real good so it pre ignites and breaks rings. I only use 80% either, that other stuff is only good to clean parts.
A rag dampend with gasoline over the air intake fastened in a manner that when the engine starts it is not drawn in works well also.
My JD 4320 will NOT start under 40 without the block heater or Either, and it has new batteries, injection pump and starter, my father's 4020 is the same way. Some engines are just cold natured. My dozer powered with a Detroit Diesel with fire down to 20, anything below that requires a little help from the either bunny.
SmokinDodge
Powered by Cummins
chowdozer said:
Some times the idle is too low. After a few thousand cycles of the throttle pedal they do need adjustment.
Do the Cummins in the dodge pickups circulate the fuel through the tanks like the ones in over the road pickups? I live in central illinois and am taking a trip to northern south dakota this february and it kind of has me wondering if there is anything i will need if its extra cold up there. Have no problem starting now down to zero but my luck it will be a tad bit colder when i go. thanks in advance.
04superduty
ArboristSite Member
yes, the powerstroke, cummins, and duramax and almost every diesel engine circulates the fuel not used back to the tank. part of the reason is to help cool the injectors down. so running a diesel vehicle low on fuel is not a good idea.lqqk said:
I had a 1992 Dodge 350 bucket truck that would start almost as soon as turned over, every time. I owned it for 3 years (until 2 months ago, when it was 15 years old), and about 0 F was as cold as I ever had to start it. No problem.
Now I have a 2001 F-250 that is a bit** to start below freezing (automatic), a 2000 F-350 bucket truck that is amost as bad (automatic), and a 1999 F-550 chip truck (manual) that will start reliably down to 0 F. All are 7.3 Powerstrokes. I have an excellent mechanic that cannot explain the difference.
The 1992 Dodge was a Cummins, obviously. My Vermeer BC1000XL is a 4 cyl. Cummins. It will barely start below 25 F.
My ASV skid steer has a Perkins diesel. It will barely start below 25 F.
You say "some diesels are just cold-natured", but how is there so much difference when it is the same engine. I don't get it. I just know it sucks trying to get all the equipment started this time of year on mornings when it is 12 F. I'm getting electricity run out to the yard this week so I can plug things in, but the chipper doesn't even have a block heater or glow plugs on it. A friend of mine has the exact same chipper and has no problem starting it on cold morinings. What the heck?
Thanks for your input . . . important thread.
Now I have a 2001 F-250 that is a bit** to start below freezing (automatic), a 2000 F-350 bucket truck that is amost as bad (automatic), and a 1999 F-550 chip truck (manual) that will start reliably down to 0 F. All are 7.3 Powerstrokes. I have an excellent mechanic that cannot explain the difference.
The 1992 Dodge was a Cummins, obviously. My Vermeer BC1000XL is a 4 cyl. Cummins. It will barely start below 25 F.
My ASV skid steer has a Perkins diesel. It will barely start below 25 F.
You say "some diesels are just cold-natured", but how is there so much difference when it is the same engine. I don't get it. I just know it sucks trying to get all the equipment started this time of year on mornings when it is 12 F. I'm getting electricity run out to the yard this week so I can plug things in, but the chipper doesn't even have a block heater or glow plugs on it. A friend of mine has the exact same chipper and has no problem starting it on cold morinings. What the heck?
Thanks for your input . . . important thread.
what an excellent idea!
using a tiger torch and 6 foot section of chimney pipe w/elbow to warm your engine up.
already got several old blow torches that might do the job too.
my 97 12 valve cummins already starts quite well, plugged in or not. but our temps in Okla. is no where near extreme like our Canadian brethren.
standard procedure to start is to depress throttle 1/4 while cranking, after waiting a minute or so for heater strip to heat up. usually starts right up on first crank.
using a tiger torch and 6 foot section of chimney pipe w/elbow to warm your engine up.
already got several old blow torches that might do the job too.
my 97 12 valve cummins already starts quite well, plugged in or not. but our temps in Okla. is no where near extreme like our Canadian brethren.
standard procedure to start is to depress throttle 1/4 while cranking, after waiting a minute or so for heater strip to heat up. usually starts right up on first crank.
Last edited:
1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
lots of great tips
heres one more
if batteries and starter have enough oomph
mix 10 oz gas w/ 5 oz diesel in a small finger spray bottle (like spray n wash bottle). pump spray into intake while cranking. almost impossible to over charge the cylinder with this mix.
1/4 to 1/3 throttle helps many also. cant explain how but it works.
i had a 1910 ford diesel tractor, indirect injection, that was the most difficult engine i have ever been around (and i grew up on the farm and drove road tractors for 35 yrs).
gas/fuel spray and charge the battery before cranking wil help a bunch.
good bump on an old thread
heres one more
if batteries and starter have enough oomph
mix 10 oz gas w/ 5 oz diesel in a small finger spray bottle (like spray n wash bottle). pump spray into intake while cranking. almost impossible to over charge the cylinder with this mix.
1/4 to 1/3 throttle helps many also. cant explain how but it works.
i had a 1910 ford diesel tractor, indirect injection, that was the most difficult engine i have ever been around (and i grew up on the farm and drove road tractors for 35 yrs).
gas/fuel spray and charge the battery before cranking wil help a bunch.
good bump on an old thread
Last edited:
I told my guys I will break their fingers off if I see them using either to start any of my engines. No need for it and the results can cost more that letting a Gen run for an hour while they sip coffee and talk about how bad 'The Leaf's' suck!
Last edited:
mayor
ArboristSite Member
Sure fire way of starting cold diesels WITHOUT!!! ether.....
Make sure the batteries are good. Make sure they are fully charged.
Most diesels are equipped with glowplugs or grid heaters...make sure they are working properly beforehand.
Make sure starters are in good condition before winter sets in.....draggy starters will kill batteries and wont turn cold diesels over fast enough.
O.K., here's my secret weapon.....
Use a propane torch too heat the air in the intake.....just remove the breather....and blow hot air into the intake.......dont burn anything....just blow warm air in....now then....hit the starter!...she'll fire right up!.
Never failed me yet!.
Ether kills diesels!!!!....even if they dont die...it'll scar their cylinders for life!.
Everyone has heard that once you use ether..you'll always use ether?...well, thats because it washes down the cylinder walls quickly and the rings scratch the walls and thus loses some compression.....Oh..they'll run for years anyway...but they wont have that extra umph they had with good sealing rings!.
Make sure the batteries are good. Make sure they are fully charged.
Most diesels are equipped with glowplugs or grid heaters...make sure they are working properly beforehand.
Make sure starters are in good condition before winter sets in.....draggy starters will kill batteries and wont turn cold diesels over fast enough.
O.K., here's my secret weapon.....
Use a propane torch too heat the air in the intake.....just remove the breather....and blow hot air into the intake.......dont burn anything....just blow warm air in....now then....hit the starter!...she'll fire right up!.
Never failed me yet!.
Ether kills diesels!!!!....even if they dont die...it'll scar their cylinders for life!.
Everyone has heard that once you use ether..you'll always use ether?...well, thats because it washes down the cylinder walls quickly and the rings scratch the walls and thus loses some compression.....Oh..they'll run for years anyway...but they wont have that extra umph they had with good sealing rings!.
Mikecutstrees
ArboristSite Guru
I found a good heater for my chipper at the local auto parts store. Its magnetic and you just stick it to the bottom of the oil pan. 200 Watts, works great 30 minutes or so and it starts right up. In real cold weather I leave it on over night. Just unstick it when you are done. $40... heck of a deal....
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
That may be true.
The generators I start don't have a throttle pedal though. Constant rpm.
