Stihl FS 560

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I would call! To be honest I assume you are probalbly the only buyer this month of such a clearing saw, so they have a right to get to know that you are having problems and are considering NEVER buying a stihl again....

7
 
Thanks for the Ohio referral. I'm sure it would be handy to deal with this so close to the distribution center in Dayton. Unfortunately that dealer is 500 miles away from me and Dayton is thus about 450.

My new 'dealer' is handing it off to the Stihl rep only, won't make any decisions on his own. The latest is that the rep is 'very familiar' with these saws - but is headed to Ohio for a week of meetings. He can get to this issue 'next week'

I told him to have a new head overnighted here immdiately or give me my money back. The dealer response - "I'll ask them"

I feel like I just threw One Thousand Four Hundred Dollars down a rabbit hole. My schedule is getting more wrecked by the day. Time ... IS money.

What happens if I call Virginia Beach?

Call Virginia Beach and make them aware of all the time you've already wasted.
 
I went with calling the distributor in Ohio, thanks. I didn't understand at the first reference that it was the distributor actually, thought it was just a large high-quality dealer. Their tech who answered the call agreed to help sort it out.

I worked until a squall line came in this afternoon but that was probably too late to move a part to me today. Dumb on my part. When the dealer finally got word from the rep 'first thing' = 11:15 a.m. I told them I need a new bevel gear head immediately or my money back. I don't know what to make of a dealer that can't pull the trigger on his own, nor do I know how much local assembly was involved. And I figure a more common dealer experience is the renter complaining that his little electric chainsaw won't cut down the 24" Oak in his yard.
 
The warranty procedure usually involves the dealer's tech finding the problem, and contacting the dist. or the sales
rep for authorization for the repair. Usually, the dealer or tech could expedite the whole thing if they really wanted to.
On a more common piece, I would even pop the part on from off of a new unit to get the customer going quickly.
But since the brushcutter is rare, and the cost of the part is so high, the dealer will be a bit more "squirrelly"...
The retail cost of the gearhead housing is like $389. The blowup doesn't show a complete gearhead, but there may be one. Otherwise the tech will have to rebuild it......
 
No news this morning.

One frightening thing, to me, is the idea of a tech who has never seen one of these before re-building the bevel gear. I didn't spend $1400 for re-built stuff, particularly that part of the saw. The cylinder can out-last the bevel gear and in fact that is currently happening to my 2002 saw.

The splines on the end of the shaft still look good. I hope they do at the clutch end as well.

An even worse potential is something I already know to be one of the joys of operating a clearing saw in the USA - when the parts are back-ordered from Europe. The Swedes ship them by boat I believe.

I have contracts due 10-31 and the clock is ticking. These jobs are 3-500 miles away and now I can't leave home. I have a kid waiting to work. If he skates, can Stihl replace him? (Have been through that scenario before). I have spent $3K on new saws since June and I am out of working capital right now to just go buy a 555 instead - which would also take several days to complete. I am a 'micro' sized business competing against contractors with large foreign labor crews and dubious labor law compliance - they set the rates in my business and at $18/hr an employee or two can easily earn more than me sometimes.

I wish I could dig a trench across this dealer's driveway and tell him someone might fix it next week. Might call Virginia this afternoon. I didn't realize I was buying something from it looks like four different businesses with a slice of my action - dealer/rep/distributor/corporate who have now probably launched their own internal pass-the-buck battle. No one buys a $1400 saw to go putter around the back 40 with.
 
I feel for you man. I wish you luck. Keep us informed on how they decide to handle this.
 
I left it alone yesterday, no activity on my part. The dealer left me a message at 5:15 to reassure me that "he is doing everything he can for me" = basically from what I can tell, the rep and thus the distributor are ignoring this, as they have from the very first morning I brought the machine back. No response from the tech at the distributor who I contacted directly with email copies of the videos I posted. The rep claims to be "very familiar" with these particular machines.

The rep's response both of the first two days was that it was an assembly error when selecting the parts for mounting a cutting attachment of some sort. We walked through installing a circular blade twice, the day after I bought it and the second day after I bought it. The second day is when the dealer noticed the blade wobbles just slightly as you spin it and his tech suggested a problem higher up in the gear assembly can create that. Anyone who has ever run a clearing saw before can feel this wobble as soon as you clip the machine into the harness. I tried a different blade that day and the problem remained the same. So in my opinion, the dealer's tech isolated a potential problem and that should be that. I also know that the rep was present when this machine went through the final minor assembly touches at the local dealership. And I also know that I was the first person to put any fuel in it and fire it up, which seems completely crazy to me.

The rep (I think he is an employee of the distributor actually, so only 3 businesses are involved on the Stihl end) is just basically refusing to release any possible replacement parts from the warehouse. Probably so he can inspect the saw himself when he returns to the area next week, and possibly just bring the parts with him - or not, which could extend my time without a working saw or my $1400 to as long as 14 days or more. Neither party seems willing to authorize a refund either. Basically, they are being cheapskates, is how it appears to me. I told them I am willing to pay the difference for an overnight delivery of the needed parts vs standard ground delivery. Instead I have no closure at all on when I might get a working saw or $1400 back.

I read my warranty in the manual, which I have never had to do before, ever. The warranty concerns me. They do define "timely manner" as 30 days, so perhaps they are in no rush at all, knowing that term of it. Since this is not an emissions-related part in any way, I have no idea where I stand on coverage for it.

I am also concerned about the consequences of further escalating this to USA corporate headquarters in Virginia Beach. The rep could easily retaliate by claiming operator abuse and reject all claims, would be my worry. The rep has already basically been responding that I just don't know how these machines work.

If this machine ever gets running I might consider it for future purchases. I have no wish to run Stihl machines commercially with a rep like this as a back-up on such expensive equipment.

That is very interesting news to hear there was a parts # change on the complete assembly. I can only look at the part # stamped on the housing and have no way to know which assembly goes in which machine S/N#. I wonder what the technical pronouncements might show for this machine over the last 2 years - the Husqy guys post those sometimes. I thought with a model introduced in 2013, it would be an extremely stable product that I could just pick up and run with no worries at all.

My mistake was putting too many eggs in the basket of someone I didn't know, though one of my land-owner clients and a friend who is an Arborist both use this Stihl dealer with no complaints, and this dealer is part of a large cattle farming family in the area with a sterling reputation. My current Husqvarna dealer would have had something like this sorted out in less than 5 days I am quite positive, but they are a high volume saw dealer, not a tractor dealer or a riding lawn-mower dealer with some saws on the side. I tried to find a Stihl dealer where the guys hand-falling veneer timber with Stihl chainsaws might shop but had no luck with that idea - all lawn&garden operations in my area, and they all would have had the same Stihl rep anyways.
 
Good question! To be honest if they don't get active soon I would start letting them have it and give Stihl a hint of this thread and it's potential!

7
 
I get to try a new head tomorrow a.m., got the word mid-afternoon today.

What happens when you call Virginia Beach? They ask you what state you are in and forward the call to the regional distributor. The advice above to call them directly was correct. However my call to them on Monday and then emails of the racket in that head weren't accomplishing anything. So I called back and said I don't want to talk to anyone at the distributor, I wanted someone in Virginia. The operator said she would try and get someone on the line for me, and someone did answer - it wasn't just forwarded to the normal "Press 1" switchboard.

The dealer called me late that afternoon (Wednesday) and said they did decide to ship out another head to try, and did it by just taking one off a saw still new in the box. (I was pretty worried they would say sorry, the only extra gear heads are over in Germany...) The local dealer said he was glad I did that actually, as an end-user call is taken more seriously than a dealer call - which amazes me yet again. I have never had to ask anyone aside from a local dealer anything about a saw. I still can't believe they would have been so casual about a $1400 piece of commercial equipment, but then I know well that people drawing a regular paycheck often don't quite understand people who are self-employed. It took 5 business days to talk them into releasing another gear head to try.

No one could figure out tracking or what day it would arrive and I started making plans for Monday. Which was one of my points with them - make this decision early in the week or I lose several more days.

I will try it tomorrow morning. There remains the minor possibility that the shaft isn't seated well at the clutch but I think that is much less likely than a problem inside the bevel gear.

When this saw gets running correctly, and I believe it will, I will update the initial post. This saw is generally pretty well regarded in places it is used commonly.

I will however definitely stick to my plan of trying this saw and the 55cc Husqy version before purchasing saw #3 and #4. Separate post to follow...
 
One of the reasons I wanted to purchase this saw was I suspected Stihl might be taking these top-end clearing saws more seriously than Husqvarna is. This is mostly due to the way Husqy hasn't put Auto-Tune technology in theirs yet. I don't want to get in on the first model year of that.

As I've mentioned this is the 4th year that Stihl's M-Tronic technology has been in these big clearing saws. But other small details, aside from this problematic bevel-gear head, have me wondering which manufacturer cares more about this line; it could be Husqvarna. The hard-to-find 2016 physical paper catalog from Husqvarna reveals they have several additional models of these only sold in Canada, where they are used much more extensively.

Stihl sending me a relatively weak harness, and one weaker than one they do already have in their product line, is telling about the amount of their thought behind this product in the USA. Husqy recently updated their harness and it is excellent.

I don't think either of them sells many of these in the USA. The Pre-Commercial Thinning business is fairly big in the south-eastern states, but the primary species cut there is 5" Loblolly pine and this can be done a good bit more easily with 40cc class machines from a variety of manufacturers (or maybe even 30cc machines), than the species and sizes on jobs I run into on my jobs in the Great Lakes states. (I do work in the south in the winter). Most Foresters look at young-age financial inputs in a stand as optional - stand quality is a problem for a future generation. Work for these machines is a bit rare in the north, though USFS hires it out hundreds of acres at a go. Clearing saws are also excellent for wildlife habitat maintenance where good wildlife shrubs are not be cut amidst invading timber species - a mulcher or wide-open hydro-ax can't save things on a species basis.


I also wanted to note something that has long bothered me about big clearing saws - you don't receive a file guide when you purchase one from either Stihl or Husqvarna. Those are a little $15 accessory. Again the Husqvarna one is better - easier to match up the lines to the tooth, and it has more heft to it, making it easier to create a smooth stroke. It is not quick and simple to teach a new young sawyer to sharpen the saw on their own. Also the Husqy file guide includes proper slots for re-bending the teeth to a correct kerf setting, though I rarely fool with that and even after running clearing saws for 12+ years I don't totally understand that. But with Stihl, the little bending tool is another separate accessory. Another telling nitpicky point is that the user manual for the Stihl machine never does explain proper sharpening of a circular saw blade at all! But nits add up when you are spending this much money.

Why is any of that important? The angle you use to sharpen a circular clearing saw blade is 15º - not the 25º used with a chainsaw. And without the handy little file guide, it is not simple to create the right angle. I think the manufacturers have probably lost repeat business on these machines by not including one of these handy file guides with each saw. And the dealers don't know this either - so they don't stock these guides nor explain this to purchasers.

I worked for a cheapskate contractor earlier in my career, though only in the winter months. I already owned my first clearing saw for independent work in the summer when he decided to try pre-commercial thinning. He picked up four saws and I trained everyone involved on everything; my file guide stayed very busy. But then it was time for me to return north for my own jobs in the spring. But my boss, being cheap, refused to spend an extra $15 on these saws and the guys were on their own for sharpening them. I saw the results later - deep slanted U shapes on the blade, making them look like skil-saw blades. Which seems logical, but doesn't cut well. The guys destroyed the clutch on each of the saws within 2 months and my boss junked the saws and soured on the work completely.
 
....

The Stihl rep thought the company was doing me a big favor by including the Stihl "Universal" harness with the saw instead of the "Forestry" harness, which was dumb. He thought that because the "Universal" harness costs more. The "Forestry" harness has a buckle across your chest and that would help immensely with a 23 lb saw. The new Husqvarna "Balance XT" harness is greatly superior. Fortunately I already own two of those, relatively new. But I would insist at least on receiving the Stihl "Forestry" harness with one of these.

.... .

It is a fairly common observation that the Husky harnesses are better than the Stihl ones - so no surprise there at least...
 
Well it looks like I bought myself an extra bevel gear head. On Saturday I put the replacement head on and that didn't change much. It had a S/N just 99 off from the one on my machine. They all make the same sound when not driven by the engine - just one of the many things I have to learn adapting to the Stihl clearing saw ecosystem, as Husqy bevel gear heads are dead quiet.

I also think I might now know why there are two different Part #s for these heads - Stihl is in the process of replacing heads on all of their shaft-driven devices with sealed unit heads - no more nut to take off to add grease. My dealer even has a tube of this grease but these new heads just can't be greased. This feels strange to me, but that's the new deal.

The new head makes less of a screech as the blade spins, and has been staying at exactly the same point on the shaft rather than slipping down.

Yesterday, I thought I was back to Square One with this machine. Still wobbled like a drunken sailor and occasionally made the entire shaft and the entire machine vibrate and shake, sometimes violently. The dealer suggested "sometimes you might just want to let the machine break and call in the Warranty." I was hesitant to do that - I need a machine I can count on for the next 7 weeks on remote sites. I need to hire a 3rd person in October to get back on schedule - I need to be able to count on $1400 machines, not wonder which week they will go back to the shop.

It has mostly just been my misfortune that the only person I have access to in Michigan that has ever run one of these (the Stihl rep) had to go out-of-state for a week of meetings. So I requested some attempt to sort this out via a new gear head. Since that didn't work, I will probably step up and buy the extra one, not a terrible thing to have with a clearing saw, believe me. The dealer would file it as a warranty claim but I don't want to do that.

I ran a couple tanks through the saw yesterday (Saturday). To maintain the continuity on that particular job, I continued along the existing cut edge but this meant cutting small diameter (1-2") Scotch Pine all day; it is a Scotch Pine removal job. The saw cut these perfectly fine, but the wobble was ever present. Though without putting it in big wood I didn't see too much of the heavy vibration. That morning the dealer continued to suggest that I "just wasn't used to the anti-vibe" and every time I heard that sentence I would cringe and think - are they crazy? You mean the Vibration System? What "Anti" - vibe? But I was working from a negative - how much vibration would there be without those bumpers?

Today I went over to another job, which had all diameters and a diverse species mix to cut. I had to get it done anyway. I started out with the 560 but was reaching the conclusion I would just have to give it back to the dealer for the Stihl people to sort out; I have to get up to my far away jobs pronto to stay on (behind, now) schedule and get my new hire working. I would have to bend over a whole lot and just run a chainsaw for a while and come back for this saw later.

The saw was doing the vibration of the whole shaft even when building RPMs on the way into a larger cut, before the cut even started. I still felt there was no way this machine would last a week of daily use like this.

But I ran out the first tank, sharpened, and re-filled. The wobble got worse. It was even affecting my ability to operate the saw in that it would lead the saw head into places that I didn't want it to go, leading to kickback. That's not dangerous on a brush saw if you are clipped into the harness, but if you hit something big that is hard on the clutch. Hanging 23 lbs off a free-swinging clip on the harness is a unique way to cut things. I maneuver a clearing saw very carefully for quality cuts and now the wobble was interfering with that some.

It seemed to be bad whenever I attempted to take-off from Idle, and the saw was having more and more trouble taking-off at all. Finally I realized - this brand new saw with it's automatically adjusted carb was losing power. :(

EUREKA!

One of my Canadian contacts had told me to delete the muffler screen immediately. I didn't do that, figuring when it came time to clean it I would decide then. Technically I have to have a spark screen on my equipment on Federal contracts. I was hoping I could run with the screen on. And I just wasn't thinking about the idea much while the depression of possibly wasting $1400 just gnawed at me. I hadn't even run a gallon of gas through this saw (1st qt was Motomix then 91 Octane + HP Ultra). On all of the Husqvarna saws I have run in my life, I only have to clean the muffler screen annually, and even then sometimes the wire brush just doesn't accomplish much as they haven't carboned up that much.

I looked in the muffler and could no longer see any brass at all on the screen, even with a flashlight! Black as night in there.

So I started taking the saw apart. It looked like the screen was only removable by splitting the muffler - I have had a saw like that before. I got the muffler off but couldn't figure out how to split it open. Finally I caved and opened the manual. This part I couldn't believe - it suggests taking the saw to a dealer for muffler maintenance! Is Stihl always like this? I'm not really digging the Stihl experience very much so far at all.

I keep looking at it and it looked like the depressed area leading to the screen in the center of the muffler might hold a wrench, and it did - I could have just removed the screen with the scrench supplied with the saw. Doh! But then the user manual doesn't tell you this either, nor divulge a suggested cleaning schedule for the screen. The Canadian suggested it would have to be done daily if I left it in there.

The screen was a surprising design. I hate it. It looked somewhat like this (image cribbed from eBay, it won't be around forever):

s-l300.jpg


The whole thing was solid black, no light showing through well at all. I couldn't see how I could ever get the whole thing very clean. I have a small wire brush about the diameter of a dime in my saw toolbox, but even that wouldn't fit in the cup shaped screen. I could only clean the outside of it.

I doubt I will ever put it back in the saw. I will watch closely near dark one day next week when someone else runs it. I have never run a saw without the screen, never needed to. I wish there was an after-market flat screen that just fit in the nut that screws out of the muffler, that could be cleaned quickly and easily. But I seriously doubt one exists.

But now - I HAVE A BRAND NEW SAW. This thing is a beast. It cuts Pine like a hot knife through butter. If I create a bit of kickback and the saw kicks into a non-target stem, it simply slices right through it rather than stopping.

There is still a wobble feel, though it is not as dramatic. And now it makes sense. The anti-vibe system picks up all it can, but there is a limit. The shaking of the shaft is gone until you hit the very top end at the far edge of a big stem. The motor isn't gasping for air and running funky and shaking all the time.

My Husqys still run noticeably smoother and I am starting to see this is the limit of what the Stihl design can accomplish. I doubt Stihl would have ever told me to try taking the screen out. I still hope to pick up some other copy of this machine and see if mine just might not have something seated correctly. Some day. I won't buy another copy of this saw without running another one first, that is for sure, and will evaluate the Husqy 555 Fx in a few weeks.

But this thing cuts, and cuts, and cuts. And that is what I paid for.

I have really been wondering now - how does the Magic-Tronic system account for increasing carbon on the screen? How could it? On a fuel injected vehicle, there is a sensor that measures the air-flow, at least on the way into the cylinders, and of course an O2 sensor on the exhaust. I don't think M-Tronic can adjust for an increasingly dirty screen. And for a solid black screen on less than a gallon of gas, I just, I dunno. Go figure. Or something.
 
Call me crazy, but I would have taken out the drivshaft and checked if it was straight. Just so you know... Might make you sleep better at night. Granite countertop works well... Glass table...
 

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