still ms250 question

[tobers]

I'm pretty-very sure he used oil/gas mix. piston and cylinder look great as far as I can tell. I little dark color (combustion looking) on top of the piston. I'm guessing that is normal.

 

[tobers]

Ok. It's running now. Sweet. Seems to oil. Will need to test it out to be sure. I guess now I need more help in adjusting/tuning it so that it isn't so hard to start. My buddy got it to start by holding the throttle trigger down while pulling the rope. He's also 30 years younger than I am I can start my 025 without doing that ... with my foot on the flat part of the handle. This one wouldn't start that way.

 

[Okie]

Kinda unusual for a Stihl with good compression to flood. They generally require a choke to get the first pop especially when the engine is cold then remove choke to the center fast idle position. If the carb keeps on letting too much fuel in when cold they will easily flood.
Did it idle smooth and rev good?
Did it re-start easily after it got warmed up?

Probably the carb.
A hint of a carb flooding due to old needle/seat or dried out diaphragms when engine is cold is let it sit for 24 hours then try to start with no choke and constantly holding the throttle wide open when cranking. It may not start but will promise with few pops then re-flood the crankcase again. If it starts let it warm up and check the rev's and idling. Sometimes the engine will even run good and not flood when the engine is running and vibrating the carb, but flood later on a cold re-start. The saw when it first quit had gas aging (drying out) in the carb when the saw was inoperative, maybe.

A weak ignition will usually result in just the opposite symptoms, engine starts easier cold, then hard to start when hot.

Just some hints if you go towards the carb:
Complete OEM replacement carb for that saw is priced reasonable usually. A OEM carb kit is about 3/4 price of a carb usually, so just replace the carb. I think maybe about 4 different types of carbs was used on those saws, some have the high limit plastic adjuster and some do not. You might have to remove the carb and look for numbers to see what ya have so as to get a replacement.

I would probably add little bit of oil to oiler tank so as to see if it's going to oil ok if it re-starts.

It's tempting, but do not permanently run a $10 ebay China clone carb. It can lean out and ruin your saw engine real fast when in the wood under heavy load.

 

[tobers]

Okie. another update. I took it for a test this morning. With the switch all of the way down, it popped right away. I moved it to the middle and it fired on about the 5th pull. idled great. revved great. I'm not saying all of that is fixed, but it worked great today. But, the chain wouldn't move until I gave it some throttle, and in the cut it seemed to disengage from cutting occasionally. I'd pull the saw back up, get the chain going again, and then it would cut for a while. After two cuts through 20" of oak, it started smoking slightly at the clutch, so I stopped using it. Here is what I think is going on: I bought a junk clutch (not OEM) because I did so before I started posting here. And, the piece the clutch fits into (with the sprocket on it) that I ordered was the wrong part. So, presently I have a cheap clutch in the old housing that was fried. I'm guessing the clutch isn't biting into the housing as it should, and I need to order a new OEM clutch and housing. I'm still not confident it is oiling properly. Can I spray air down the passage to see if it comes out near the worm gear? Is this conclusive? If I idle it with no bar/chain, should oil seep out of that passage on the side of the saw? Just trying to eliminate problems one at a time. THANK you.

 

[Okie]

Maybe Harley or someone more experienced with those oilers and clutches will chime in with some oiler tips.

On my Chainsaws to see if they are oiling I just watch for oil specks and every once in awhile a splatter of oil being slug off the tip of the bar by the chain while being held close to a piece of cardboard or a white surface while the saw is running at a high rpm. If using the thicker summertime Stihl oil out of the orange jug it will take maybe 20 seconds at high rpm to see oil drip or spatter. If using a lighter grade oil it may sling more oil faster.
Watch and don't let the chain and bar groove get hot if it's not oiling. (or you can remove the bar and chain and then put the side plates back on and the cover and oil should drip out the bottom after some accelerating) Be careful and run and not accelerate the saw with the side cover off on the clutch side because some clutch pieces might fly off and get some meat. (and the clutch you describe may be about to fly apart)
You can review some oiler test procedures on you tube. Those Stihl saws don't oil any or not very much at low rpms.

Appears your starting issue is coming around. Maybe the carb is starting to like fresh gas..

 

[Cody]

I don't like holding the trigger wide open on a saw unless it's in wood, but that's the best way to test how well it's oiling, it should throw oil in the direction the bar is pointed. Seeing as how the oil pump only pumps oil when the clutch drum is spinning, you need to get the rpms up. You can do this without the bar/clutch cover and it should create flow.

Just a SAFETY hint: (to protect your jewels when cranking a flooded chainsaw.

HarleyT will like this one.

I had one that would not start awhile back and found it was severely flooded, pulled the spark plug and seen it was really wet, put the spark plug on it's wire and gently pulled the rope and had good spark, so I placed the saw between my legs and gave the rope a hard yank to un-flood the cylinder area with the spark plug dangling on it's wire and she blowed fire and gas between my legs toward my jewels like a dragon. It hurts when trying to whip out a crotch fire trying to gently save your testicles. I saved all, but first couple of whacks to the crotch took my breath. (and my voice was high pitched for awhile. Sure was thankful my wife did not see that one she would still be laughing.

Won't forget that one.

It had a bad needle seat in the carb.

I needed to remove a corner fence post to get our 856 tractor into a pasture. Instead of going back a few posts and removing the fence from the metal T-post one by one, I just thought I'd slip the fence up over the corner one, well it was a little tighter than I thought it would be and when I finally slipped the last bit of fence over the top of the post, the post sprung back right into my groin area. Between it smacking the jewels, and knocking the wind out of me, I wound up on my knees not breathing. Though maybe the girlfriend seen me but she hadn't, thankfully.

 

[Okie]

I don't like holding the trigger wide open on a saw unless it's in wood, but that's the best way to test how well it's oiling, it should throw oil in the direction the bar is pointed. Seeing as how the oil pump only pumps oil when the clutch drum is spinning, you need to get the rpms up. You can do this without the bar/clutch cover and it should create flow.

I just throttle up and down when checking for oiler operation.
I don't hold my own saws wide open either unless in the wood or just briefly wide open checking the high RPMS on a echo digital tach after setting the High speed jet to 4 cycle by ear. (too make sure the no load RPM's are not too high due too running too lean)

 

[misstobers]

okie. Just got back from a long work trip. Put on the OEM clutch, bearing, drum, etc. on. I cleaned out the groove/sprocket on the bar and the chain turns well. I put a paper towel down, set the saw on a stump, and ran it; it threw a light line of oil. So it is oiling fine. Sunk it into a big wet red oak ... much bigger than the bar ... and it cut great. The only problem is that it is still finicky to start. Floods easily. And I had to keep the trigger pulled all of the way and crank it off of the ground to get it to fire up. Flooded it once. Any thing I might do other than "throw a new carb on it" to increase the ease of starting? Once it runs, it idles (doesn't die), and runs full out. Thanks again for all of the help. It is satisfying to have it working/cutting.

 

[Okie]

????? I'm not sure, but consider the following
I checked back at your posts and on pg 3 or so you indicated the saw had 30 psi compression so you got a new tester and it indicated 95 on this saw and same thing on your old 20 year 025.

You then ASSUMED your new tester is reading lower than normal and the compression is PROBABLY ACTUALLY HIGHER. (because the other old 025 saw starts and runs ok)
Your NEW compression tester may be indicating the correct compression at 95.
I would pull the muffler and take a peek inside at the piston cylinder and see if rings are not stuck, etc, and if all looks ok then think about taking the saw somewhere that has a known true reading small engine compression tester. You said then saw was ruined by a rookie, he may have also straight gassed the saw.

What you are describing now as hard to start and flooding could be bad gas/mix and/or low compression. (and maybe a bad carb)
I would also BUY some FRESH gasoline (I use non-ethanol) and do a 50:1 mix. I've seen gas that would run in a auto or other type engines but would make a chainsaw very hard to start but the saw engine would run ok after it finally got started and I've seen this gasoline issue more times than once.
If fresh gas does not help, take the saw and get the compression checked.

Does the saw start easily after it's been run awhile and warmed up?
Does it start ok after it's at rest for 2-3 hours?
Does it flood only when cold or also when it's warmed up?

 

[fearofpavement]

To check the oiler, take off the bar and chain. Run the saw. The clutch won't fly off this model of saw, that's a Husky outboard clutch thing. You should see oil coming out the oil hole in the engine housing. The oiler in this saw is very cheap to buy but also prone to plug up. I've had to change a few of them. Uses the same oiler as the MS170 and MS180 and several other saws so is readily available.
To remove the oiler, if that's the issue, it requires a screw of the right metric size and needs to be seated back in correctly so it engages properly with the worm drive that's driven by the clutch.
I would get your running issues sorted out before worrying about the oiler. Could be nothing more than incorrect starting technique. Get it running and tuned and then assess oiling issues.

 

[Okie]

tobers:

Let us know the outcome of your 250 hard to start/oiling etc?

 

[tobers]

thanks for checking in! I'm stuck in a business meeting in a hotel for a week, 3000 miles from the saw. i did, however, put more gas in it and it fired up great. My sons run a big lawn business, so though the gas isn't "fresh" -- couldn't get time to go buy new -- it definitely is not older than november. And it almost is for sure without ethanol. But I can buy fresh gas, but it will be a few days (unfortunately). Project is slightly on hold (but we've made awesome progress). Thank you

 

[Okie]

thanks for checking in! I'm stuck in a business meeting in a hotel for a week, 3000 miles from the saw. i did, however, put more gas in it and it fired up great. My sons run a big lawn business, so though the gas isn't "fresh" -- couldn't get time to go buy new -- it definitely is not older than november. And it almost is for sure without ethanol. But I can buy fresh gas, but it will be a few days (unfortunately). Project is slightly on hold (but we've made awesome progress). Thank you

Sometimes if you will take a Stihl chain saw to bed with you and Cuddle with it, it will like you more especially one like you have that has been severely mistreated and abused. It will appreciate little TLC
Next time take the Stihl with you to the hotel.

Don't let your wife catch you cheating on her though.

I have a deer rifle that I sleep with during deer season when I'm camped out. I do not tell the wife about my love for my deer rifle. If she found out how much I care for my deer rifle both of us would be out in woods permanently.

Tips from a Stihl Redneck Deer hunter.

 

[tobers]

okie. When I came back from my business trip this week there was a big tree fell that had fallen in my yard. So today I put the saw to another test. Started like a champ. Again. Sweet. A week or so ago I bought a PFRED 2 in 1 sharpener, and now the chain is really sharp ... it cut great. I was celebrating the resurrection of the saw. But at the end of the first tank of gas the chain seemed to bind up. Since I needed gas/oil, I turned it off. It ends up that the sprocket at the end of the bar wasn't rotating/had bound up. Now a little bit of backstory: the rookie who ruined the saw also cut a telephone pole with it. I wonder if creosote or something damaged the sprocket. So I cleaned out the guide, picked out any debris in the sprocket, and it began to spin pretty freely (not with no resistance), so I went back to cutting with it. I only had 4-5 big cuts left, but it did great. It seems to be oiling fine. How often does a sprocket hang up? Is this routine maintenance sort of stuff? Or might the bar be damaged? I can always keep cutting and see if it reoccurs, but this is the second time the sprocket has hung up since I rebuilt the saw ... maybe 4 tanks of gas. Thanks

 

[TheTone]

How often does a sprocket hang up? Is this routine maintenance sort of stuff? Or might the bar be damaged? I can always keep cutting and see if it reoccurs, but this is the second time the sprocket has hung up since I rebuilt the saw ... maybe 4 tanks of gas. Thanks

The bar sprocket is oiled by the bar oiler, hence the need for a high output oiler for long bars. Some bars have a hole for oil at the sprocket where you can add some manually. Some people grease the sprocket, but if you do, you have to keep it up faithfully, since the grease tends to exclude the oil coming from the bar.

 

[lambs]

A couple comments.

One, the 025/250 saws are notorious for flooding. Best procedure is full choke, pull the cord twice, switch to half choke even if it did not pop, pull starter cord till saw running.

Second, it’s not that unusual to have the bar tip jam with wood fiber from the cut. I carry a small ball peen hammer with me to get the sprocket moving again and clear out the wood fiber by spinning the sprocket. I also squirt a little WD-40 into the sprocket area once in a while to really flush the crud out of it. It should spin pretty easily by hand.

There are tons of this saw model out there and they’re great for what they are.

 

[Okie]

You might have to remove the bar and use compressed air to get the crud out after soaking the tip of the bar in diesel or kerosene and clean the bar groove real good with a putty knife. You need to get the tip spinning freely or replace the bar or bar tip. If you get it too spinning freely and it seizes again you probably have a bad bearing or a weak oiler.
Keep a heads up on the chain and if you see it getting loose after tensioning when cutting, the chain is not getting enough oil and getting warm and stretching. (and the bearing will be starving for oil)
and you are straining your clutch. Most likely since the saw bar has seen little use you just need to give it a good cleaning and then properly tension the chain.

Some of the bars have a little bitty hole in the side of the bar at the tip for injecting lube but most later bars do not have the hole for needle tip injection of lube.

On my older bars with the lube holes I use a needle injector and grease (old Homelite bars used grease and had a optional injector for such) and grease them quite often but the later years bars says not to use grease.

 

[misstobers]

back at it. It seems to be cranking fine, but I still don't have the oil problem fixed. It ran for about 5 minutes today and the chain was obviously quite tight. I stopped. Took it off. Ran the engine. No oil. And the clutch, which is a new OEM, is a tad dark. I think in light of the trauma this thing has been through that I should just put in a new oil pump. See what happens.

 

[tobers]

well, bad news. When I removed the clutch to replace the oil pump I discover the remnants of the worm gear. Melted globs of nylon. So, to review from the beginning of this saga: After the saw had overheated and melted the case around the clutch, I replaced the worm gear, clutch, bearing, clutch housing (and the main bearings). I did need to grind out some of the melted plastic so the clutch would spin without binding. I've put about 3-4 tanks of gas through it. It runs great, but in every tank, at some point in time, it seems to bind up. One time it was the sprocket. I would take it apart, clean it, and it would run strong for another tank. So I decided to order a new oil pump. But when I went to replace it I realized that my new clutch cover is discolored. Inside of the clutch was a black substance; it appeared to be burnt clutch lining. So it appears most of my new parts have burned up What next? I hate to buy all that stuff new again, and put in this new pump. Maybe that does it ... but maybe it all burns up again. It is the case? Any ideas? thank you!

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

May be time to gather the family together and discuss end of life decisions. DNR? Good organ donor of piston and cylinder to transplant into a good case that may have scored pc ??

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk