Stump Grinding prices??

[Hexa Fox]

I know this is old but there are some people here with a crappy attitude. Both beginners, professionals and people in between are going to linger here. I would say that more people here are people seeking advice so this site (like myself) is made up of people close to "Arborstarters" or below professional/commercial grade.

Anyway I also have no clue what rbtree is talking about. The only real way to give an estimate is by inch in diameter across the longest portion of the stump since they all obviously do not grow even. Now with that in mind if you look at a job and see that more has to be done like surface roots or the trunk has not been cut close enough to the ground you need to add and extra charge. You will probably want to trim the stump as close to the ground as you can get it with a chainsaw before you even think about grinding on it.

Also I agree with the others that say you need to charge a good deal of money for this service. However it is common to give good discounts for people that have more than one stump. Because good commercial stump grinders range roughly anywhere between $40,000-$100,000. I am contemplating investing in a John Deere 3720 with a Woods TG50 Stump Grinder on it. This is around a $20,000 investment for the used tractor and new grinder. It works just as well as the commercial grade stump grinders but I would never expect it to cut the stumps as fast, as deep, or as many that a machine that cost that much money is made to do.

I mean you're telling me that people are charging a dollar per inch of stump? If you have a real stump grinder and not the little rototiller like garbage you see at HomeDepot you will never pay off the equipment. Each inch you grind would make you one dollar towards your grinder that cost a minimum of $20,000? Who is going to grind 20,000 inches of stump to pay off that machine?

Now back to the extra charge for extra work. If you go to a job and the stump is not cut close enough to the ground you need to tell them that you need to charge extra because simply you will need to cut the stump closer to the ground before grinding. Then you ask if they want the surface roots ground up as well. If it is bad (mower hitting it, people tripping on it, eye sore, etc) then they probably will. You just tell them that it is going to cost them a little more because your charge is based on the inches of the trunk only and as long as it is close enough to the ground.

 

[foggysail]

Prices around here are as low as $1 an inch. Katrina really drove the prices down.

The only good thing is there are NO rocks here at all. I've only broken 5 teeth in over 60 hours of grinding.

GEEZ, THAT'S ALMOST FREE!!!

 

[Hexa Fox]

hmmm.....

so you're claiming that you charge between 235 and 314 dollars for a ten inch diameter stump?

after all, a ten inch diameter stump has 78.5 square inches of wood, and you charge 3-4 dollars per square inch....



I don't mind a bit helping people who ask intelligent questions. But when someone doesn't even have the experience to know how much to charge, blindly asks "how much do you charge".....well that's open season....here's why.

That is why you would come here looking for a good place to start. By saying open season you pretty much label your self an @$$. Especially since you directed it at the poster.

What I charge or what anybody else here charges is totally irrevelant to what this guy needs to charge to be able to get work, and be profitable.

Agreed, but exactly what I just said. He is/was trying to get a good idea of where to start.

So asking us what we charge is simply a misguided attempt to correct his problem. (Not knowing how to calculate his bid based on labor, expenses, and profit.)

"a misguided attempt"? Ha-freaking-larious. Did you ever think that he was not asking people to correct his problem but as I said twice already looking for a place to start?

BTW....when I first got my stump grinder, the first job I did was for free, so I could get a little experience with the machine, and get an idea of what I needed to charge to make money with it.

I don't get it. I respectfully and firmly agree that doing a job for free can gain you some good needed experience, which is called an amateur by the way. Now what it can not give you is a really good idea of how to charge. You did not learn about your competition at all. All you know is how long it took you the first time you did it and that is it. However by coming here he could learn a little bit about what other people charge and at least have an idea.

And if I tried to charge $3-4/ square inch, I'd never have to grind a single stump.

I don't understand? I did not read the original quote but I think they meant per square inch in diameter across the stump. Which it doesn't matter rather the tree was 10 or 100 inches. If I an not getting at least $3.00 per inch in diameter it is not worth me turning the key on my equipment. Especially since a lot of jobs will require me loading up my equipment and towing it to the location first.

 

[foggysail]

It costs money to run a business. Equipment, insurance, taxes both state & federal, bookkeeping, storage space, office space and the list goes on. And if the OP has no clue to any of the operating expenses......well.....he ain't gonna get his smarts in a public forum! OH and I forgot to add that somewhere in the mess there should be a PROFIT!

 

[Hexa Fox]

GEEZ, THAT'S ALMOST FREE!!!

It costs money to run a business. Equipment, insurance, taxes both state & federal, bookkeeping, storage space, office space and the list goes on. And if the OP has no clue to any of the operating expenses......well.....he ain't gonna get his smarts in a public forum! OH and I forgot to add that somewhere in the mess there should be a PROFIT!

Good point. Just remember that everyone starts somewhere, and for some people that somewhere is here. The people that come here looking for advice like myself should not be slandered by negative comments.

Just keep in mind this guy did NOT come here asking the community to start his business for him. He asked a simple question about how he should go about charging for stump grinding. Which by the way is how I came about finding this forum.

 

[foggysail]

Yes, everyone has to start somewhere and even with careful planning, careful bidding, good equipment and so forth, his first start could be his last.

Running a business has risks. I own apartments now and there are plenty of risks there. Earlier my business partner and I did new construction with a direct payroll for up to 20 employees. I am not trying to be rude but have you ever had to meet a weekly payroll for a crew plus pay workers comp insurance, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, state & fed payroll taxes and state license fees be it permits or whatever states can rip out of your wallet? And the expense lists goes on for needed things such as material and subs.

If these things are not well planned, the business most likely will be an expensive disaster.

 

[chief116]

Buddy, you're arguing with a nearly 6 year old post.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Yes, everyone has to start somewhere and even with careful planning, careful bidding, good equipment and so forth, his first start could be his last.

Running a business has risks. I own apartments now and there are plenty of risks there. Earlier my business partner and I did new construction with a direct payroll for up to 20 employees. I am not trying to be rude but have you ever had to meet a weekly payroll for a crew plus pay workers comp insurance, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, state & fed payroll taxes and state license fees be it permits or whatever states can rip out of your wallet? And the expense lists goes on for needed things such as material and subs.

If these things are not well planned, the business most likely will be an expensive disaster.

No I have not. My late grandmother and grandfather own houses and apartments that they rent out in VA. I have never dealt with the people that take care of them that they pay but know a little about it. Definitely a good business to be in but from working with my grandfather know it does not come without it's challenges.

I go to school for Information Systems Security and I make my living off of mowing grass, cutting down trees, spreading mulch, etc. There is no one job that I target. However as of late there are a growing number or people wanted to have their stumps removed. I figure I could never afford a full on commercial stump grinder nor would I want one. As I know the set-up I want would be more than adequate for what I am doing. My little side business has treated me much better than any job around here. Plus I like to be outside and I like learning about hydraulics, chainsaws, tractors, and the like. It sure beats stocking produce at a grocery store and barley getting paid anything.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Buddy, you're arguing with a nearly 6 year old post.

Nothing ever dies on the internet sir. Some of the users here just got under my skin.

My point is like a lot of people here and I am guessing not like a lot of others I started at the very bottom and have worked my way up. Nothing was given to me and every bit of experience and equipment I have was earned from me working and learning. There was nothing in between. My name around here locally means a good deal and that is good enough for me. I have good all around experience and love what I do. That is all I need.

 

[Hexa Fox]

My point is if I did not charge for the first time I did a lot of jobs I would have nothing. I have learned from my mistakes and by asking and reading I have learned a good bit of what to charge for what job. I have been mowing grass for over a decade now and I still have no clue what to charge people. Because it depends on a huge variety of factors. I can sometimes mow two whole acres before mowing 0.75 acres depending on terrain/obstacles.

A couple years ago I took in a job of cutting down a old rotting tree. I gave the estimate based on what I knew which I found out was extremely accurate. However what I ignorantly failed to think about was the tree was rotting so a lot of it was like dirt. Which everyone on here should know dirt and chainsaw chains do not mix. Well I already knew that but I overlooked the fact that the tree was so rotted in some parts I was going to be cutting dirt almost literally. Long story short it was a mistake and I should have charged more. Lesson learned for next time.

 

[tidy]

So when people are talking "per inch" they are talking diameter? If that's the case its pretty astounding that a unit primarily used to measure distance is being used where really what guys need to measure is volume (surely depth of grind is going to be relevant to a client)

 

[climbhightree]

Exactly. If the client is going to plant grass, we usually grind to a depth around 6" (below level ground). If in a flower bed, 8-10"...if they plan on planting another tree 12-18". I don't see how pricing per inch accounts for that. Or for rocky ground, stump access, surface roots, metal. If you are adjusting the price, for the above things, you are no longer pricing per inch...so then what are you basing it on??

And if you tell the customer, it is by inch..they go out and measure it and think it is going to be this price..then you completely change it.

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[tidy]

^ also, how do you agree on where to measure? plenty of stumps will be one foot tall with a final cut diameter which is way less than the actual base at ground level and root flare etc. Per inch pricing sounds like a total disaster...

 

[Hexa Fox]

^ also, how do you agree on where to measure? plenty of stumps will be one foot tall with a final cut diameter which is way less than the actual base at ground level and root flare etc. Per inch pricing sounds like a total disaster...

I think the only way to charge is by inch. Think about it. Are you going to charge by hour? My equipment is more than adequate but might take longer. So if I have to grind up several stumps I might spend a day on the job and make $2,000. Where as a commercial company might only make $200 if they have a piece of equipment that is solely for stump grinding.

Like I just wrote if the stump is not near the ground or root flare like you said then you have to tell the customer. Sir/Ma'am I am going to have to charge you XX because your stump needs to be closer to the ground before I can use my grinding equipment on it. I think it is the only way to go.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Plus having the tree cut close enough to the root flare is a total disaster as well. Because is it a 10" or a 60" and what kind of wood is it, where is it? So under any circumstances it would be difficult to have a solid guideline on what to charge.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Exactly. If the client is going to plant grass, we usually grind to a depth around 6" (below level ground). If in a flower bed, 8-10"...if they plan on planting another tree 12-18". I don't see how pricing per inch accounts for that. Or for rocky ground, stump access, surface roots, metal. If you are adjusting the price, for the above things, you are no longer pricing per inch...so then what are you basing it on??

And if you tell the customer, it is by inch..they go out and measure it and think it is going to be this price..then you completely change it.

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Well first off you are right pricing per inch will not account for the depth you have to cut. The Woods TSG50 grinder I am targeting can only cut to a maximum depth of 16" but cost around $4,000.

Good information though. I mean you just need to be honest with the customer. If they say what can I expect to pay either give a Free Estimate (like I always do) after you know what the customer wants and have seen the job or Be Specific and tell them that if the stump is around 10" expect to pay at least $30.00. Plus you have to ask if there are any surface roots they want removed or if the terrain is hilly/uneven. Plus you have to let them know that this does not include anything you may run unexpectedly run into like rocks. I live in West Virginia guys and I have never ran into a customer that did not understand this. This is why the Free Estimate and note the word Estimate is the best route.

You just have to say that the inch in diameter is based on say the best case scenario where the situation is ideal for you and your equipment. It does not have to be hard. I will probably say that I will ground it up 6"-8" below surface level and anything else we will have to work something out. Based on the conditions.

 

[foggysail]

A plumbing company that I know that has an office & trucks along with a crew charges 1 hour minimum just to go to your house. Their labor rate is $125/hour, doubled for emergency off hour calls plus the customer pays for one way travel time. Foxy--- you have an equipment investment plus skills, liability insurance, truck expenses plus many more costs. Your rate is IMHO way too low. Another comment, you should have a written agreement that clearly states those things you are going to do along with those things that you are not going to do. There you can have "awe shucks" contingencies (change of scope) where the customer has to agree in writing to additional charges as soon as an unforeseen problem arises. Customers sometimes are quick to say.." I didn't agree to that!" A written agreement is a contract. Does not need to be elaborate, just something that clearly states what it is you are going to be responsible for. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Just trying to provide positive suggestions.

Foggy

 

[Hexa Fox]

A plumbing company that I know that has an office & trucks along with a crew charges 1 hour minimum just to go to your house. Their labor rate is $125/hour, doubled for emergency off hour calls plus the customer pays for one way travel time. Foxy--- you have an equipment investment plus skills, liability insurance, truck expenses plus many more costs. Your rate is IMHO way too low. Another comment, you should have a written agreement that clearly states those things you are going to do along with those things that you are not going to do. There you can have "awe shucks" contingencies (change of scope) where the customer has to agree in writing to additional charges as soon as an unforeseen problem arises. Customers sometimes are quick to say.." I didn't agree to that!" A written agreement is a contract. Does not need to be elaborate, just something that clearly states what it is you are going to be responsible for. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Just trying to provide positive suggestions.

Foggy

Totally agreed that is why I said a minimum of $3.00 per square inch. Since I have little experience stump grinding and have never actually operated the equipment first hand I would probably charge around $3.50 per inch in diameter. I already know of several people in my neighborhood that want stumps removed. Two of them are neighbors and the stumps are both about 30". They are on a flat even surface and should be good experience and easy work for my new equipment. Now if I grind both of the up at $3.50 that equals to be about $210.00. That is a great start.

However I agree with you that is not going to pay for a $4,000 stump grinder nor the $10,000+ used tractor I need to run it. Providing positive criticism and suggestions is exactly what you are doing Foggy and it is appreciated by me. I need all the information I can possibly get. Which is why I got upset about the other people with the less than positive attitude.

 

[Hexa Fox]

I did not want to post this before but I have never been insured or paid other people. I thought about getting the insurance this year. However, I do not know if you know but basic Arborist Insurance here in Charles Town, West Virginia is around $1,000 a year. This does NOT include insuring equipment, other people, etc. This only insures you. Which it does not raise it too much but will obviously raise it. Plus after you pay for insurance you will obviously need to acquire a business license and pay taxes. Which I have avoided... for the past decade... Then again like I said I have done so many different jobs having insurance for everything would not have been worth it.

 

[Toddppm]

10 years and you still don't get it. No ins., no license, not worth it? ! It's called the cost of doing business. Half the people that posted in this thread don't even post anymore. I kind of want to help you but you don't seem to want any real advice? How is it good for the customer if somebody with the right equipment only needs to charge $200 and your wrong equipment will cost them $2,000???