Subordination and Insubordination

[Guy Meilleur]

In a previous thread someone advocated cabling as a routine consideration and said they were "not a fan" of subordination pruning--reduction of a codominant lead. If anyone else has read Giman's 2002 book on pruning with its extensive treatment of reduction and subordination and still is more a "fan" of cabling I'd like to hear their reasoning.

For me it's a no-brainer in terms of long-term mtc., hazard reduction, and usually aesthetics as well. Shaping the tree to correct the defect and put the codom "in its place" permanently as a smaller branch just makes more sense to me.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Guy,

Before I went to CA for the Redwood climb a windstorm went through the Twin Cities. Split open a hackberry. On portion failed and the people want the tree no matter what! I'm going to subordinate then pull the split together to bolt and cable. Better part of a tree than none.

Subordination makes so much sense, in certain applications. Everyone has already seen it in some form. After storms, topping, sometimes I've seen it done accidentally by a pruner. Following the results over the years shows that it has validity.

Bob and I have gone rounds on the issue This is a practice that isn't routine for me but I use it whenever I can to solve a problem.

Tom

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Guy,

Bob and I have gone rounds on the issue This is a practice that isn't routine for me but I use it whenever I can to solve a problem.

Tom

Yes me too even the 3 of us at one time i recall, blood and brains on the floor and for what?
The practice IS routine for me on smaller codoms and frequent even on larger ones. Just a light reduction can take a lot of the dom out of a codom, and a lot of the splitting hazard with it.

So my ?, based on reading that Guide you helped write, remains: Aren't reduction cuts the first order of business, at least before but often instead of, cabling codominant branches and stems?

I'll reply in a couple of weeks; gotta chaperone a tour with some teenagers around Greece for 11 days. 50% humidity there, can't wait to dry out. I wish all teaching jobs were like this.

Keep that silver tongue a-waggin', Guy.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

IMO it is not an either/or situation.

I use subordination in my everyday pruning practices. I would much rather shorten a branch, even to a heading cut then removi it compleatly.

With a codom I feel that modifying the growth direction of one so that the other will acheive dominance, ialaest as wind patterns is concerned, is a good practice.

Cabling has it's place, but not for every tree, as Smiley and Gillman have shown, not all included bark is very weak. Weaker then a non included union, but included unions without any visible seams are still very strong. Cabling, especialy stee systems should be reserved for higher risk situations.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

First, for GUY !!

Going to Greece?

1/2 my ancestry is from there. Enjoy yourself.

About the tree thing. We have no rule on this strategy.

Each tree is its own matter.

We use 3 options:

1. Cable

2. Top reduction

3. Thinning - big or small

Each tree gets one of those, 2 of those, or all 3.

We don't percieve it as one better than the other.

 

[rbtree]

Hey, Mario.

I'm 1/4 Greek, and my soon to be 90 yr old mom lives in Beaverton. Next time I'm visiting I will look you up. If I'm not busy, I could bring my gear, if you'd like some assistance on some unique project, or crew training.....let me know....

Roger, in Seattle.

Go to http://www.pbase.com/rbtree to see some craziness at werk.....

I agree with you, Guy, on subordination, where appropriate. Mike Oxman relayed some info on the storm restoration work you did last winter, as well as Asite photos and stories.

Tomorrow, we are pruning a large multi stemmed black locust. And installing two steel cable systems to support a badly split leader. The target is only a landscape. Bracing is not possible to add strength due to the structure in the area of the split. Removing this leader would wreck the symmetry of the tree. As well, we will install one cobra system to support two other leaders. Scott Baker, one of the premier consulting arborists, and climber to boot, is helping. I'll try to get some pics....

 

[rbtree]

The whole tree.

Some of the deadwood to the left in the tree is attached to the split leader. The rest is a mostly from a 10 inch lateral that is attached adjacent to the split, further weakening the area.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

rbtree-

So the B. Locust looks partially split and partially callused.

I miss the old one I grew up with when I was a kid. It had a drawback or two like the sprouts in the ground. But I loved to watch the petals fall like snow in the spring, and its a lovely shade.

Sure, if you're out here, send an email to see if I'm around.

If you've been down here, and know where Washington Square Mall is, we live about a mile west on the other side of Hy. 217 just off Hall Blvd.

 

[Dan F]

Not that this may throw much into the mix here, but I assume you have all seen the recent Tree Worker at http://www.treecareindustry.org/27997J4338MQ63a/?

Apparently Bartlett did some research on trees with included bark and codom stems.

Verifies what we all (should) know.


Dan