The Dangerous Art of Catching Big Wood

[D Mc]

There seems to be a lot of interest in this subject of late. So I thought I would start the thread to discuss the technical aspects, pros and cons, etc.

I am not familiar with the GCRS but am very familiar with the Hobbs. I am not sure of the exact date the Hobbs device hit the market but prior to that were many years of field testing of which I was a part. Because there was nothing like this available at the time, we really had no idea of the limits this type of rigging had. Man, did we break a lot of stuff.

I have seen discussion on angles of attachment and the use of redirects. These types of lowering devices are directionally specific. So when changing specific angles beyond a few degrees a redirect is necessary. However, implementing a redirect to move the lowering device away from the portion being lowered adds vector forces. This can drastically change load calculations and MUST be considered.

Also, in regards to placement of your safety lines relative to your lowering rigging; all I can tell you is my preference based on field experience. I have seen rigging fail, a lot of rigging fail (this was field testing to determine failure rates). And will personally never set my life support lines below the rigging. Melt throughs are instantaneous. Also on removals of large wood in the spring, on some species of trees, the bark can be quite slippery. I have actually seen the rigging slide down 4 ft before regripping the trunk; this can happen very fast. You can imagine the consequences of being tied in below that with the spurs firmly embedded in the tree.

The only requirement for setting your line above your rigging, like so much else we do, is that there is no room for error. So you must be confident that a pop off is not possible. If that means lowering your rigging rope, double wrapping your flip line, or cutting notches to hold your choked off climbing line, you do whatever the situation requires.

I know there are a lot of experienced climbers out here who are more comfortable setting their safety lines below the rigging. And that's fine. But through your experience you have shown good judgment, or you wouldn't still be doing it. But when a technique is introduced you need to take into consideration worst case scenarios. That's why we use redundancies; i.e., double tie-ins, etc. My own personal view is that at a starting point, tie-ins should be above the rigging.

Hope that's enough to get the discussion going.

D Mc

 

[woodchux]

I myself would never tie in below the rigging.

 

[jomoco]

The answer to your point about the block rigging sliding down the tree is relatively simple.

Limiting the length of the loads drop is a primary consideration when catching truly big heavy wood. This means that pretensioning the bull line with the Hobbs or GRCS is very important, but equally important in my opinion is keeping both rigging attachment points not only just close together, but making darn sure that both attachment points are truly secured at their respective attachment points. Accomplishing this is relatively quick and easy by cutting pies at 180 degrees on the opposite side of both attachment points, this ensures that the attachments stay put, as well as avoiding the sharp edges that can damage the bull line being located in the initial vertical attachment faces. I even take the time to round off each the edges of both pies to minimize any potential damage to either my bull line or my block attachment bull line.

This method is in my opinion, a very good way to ensure that both rigging attachment points aloft stay put and do not slip while also allowing me to minimize load drop as much as possible everytime I'm working down heavy big wood.

Needless to say this also gives me great confidence in placing both my lanyard attachment points below that of my block attachment bull line in a very precise manner to avoid any possible contact with the block itself.

That's my method, but I'm all ears if any of you guys have one that's better or safer.

And please no wise cracks about get a crane or just bomb the wood down in a crash and burn fashion, as this thread does I hope assume that catching the wood is the only viable option available.

jomoco

 

[lxt]

On big wood what I usually do is cut a small notch(pocket) for both my tie in which is below!! & for the rig!! I am assuming we are talking about a completely limbed out tree & only the spar is remaining?

the notch cutout allows me to tuck my safety in it so as not to suffer burn through or impact damage, the notch pocket for the rig is to keep from sliding as you mentioned.

I usually rig big stuff with a crane thimble on 3/4 inch rope down to a port a wrap, this works for me!! however Im not exactly sure how big of wood some here may be riggin down??


LXT.........

 

[jomoco]

It would definitely be very interesting to rig up some giant 48 inch plus wet wood with oversized lines and blocks, then make the cut and swing safely out of the way tied off onto a crane and get a birds eye view of the resulting bone breaking standard bull line snapping dynamic action that results.

Spool up quick like Mr. Crane Operator, pleeaase!

Somebody, somewhere has to have done it!

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

On big wood what I usually do is cut a small notch(pocket) for both my tie in which is below!! & for the rig!! I am assuming we are talking about a completely limbed out tree & only the spar is remaining?

the notch cutout allows me to tuck my safety in it so as not to suffer burn through or impact damage, the notch pocket for the rig is to keep from sliding as you mentioned.

I usually rig big stuff with a crane thimble on 3/4 inch rope down to a port a wrap, this works for me!! however Im not exactly sure how big of wood some here may be riggin down??


LXT.........

I would respectfully suggest that unless your block attachment bull line securement notch is 180 degrees away from the block, (where you should be when the action starts) it will provide little if any securement benefit to the remaining spar as it will tend to either jump below the notch when truly loaded or if it does catch, the block attachment bull line could be dynamically loaded against a sharp lateral edge at the worse possible place and time.

In my opinion any notching done for line securement purposes, needs to be done 180 degrees away from the initial line attachment point, and if truly serious load weight is involved, all sharp edges on both sides of the notching should be rounded and smoothed with your saw, it only takes about 5-10 seconds and is time very well spent in my opinion.

Just a friendly observation, please disregard if I'm understanding your post wrong.

jomoco

 

[D Mc]

It would definitely be very interesting to rig up some giant 48 inch plus wet wood with oversized lines and blocks, then make the cut and swing safely out of the way tied off onto a crane and get a birds eye view of the resulting bone breaking standard bull line snapping dynamic action that results.

Spool up quick like Mr. Crane Operator, pleeaase!

Somebody, somewhere has to have done it!

jomoco

Don't know if you have seen this video clip, but in 2004 Ken Johnson (I'm pretty sure that's his name) (and others) made a video Hobbs vs GCRS drop catching big wood. They took this process to failure with a volvo. It can be found on Ekka's website.

D Mc

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Don't know if you have seen this video clip, but in 2004 Ken Johnson (I'm pretty sure that's his name) (and others) made a video Hobbs vs GCRS drop catching big wood. They took this process to failure with a volvo. It can be found on Ekka's website.

D Mc

Gerry B. put it on a DVD for Greg Good. There was some big wood.

I saw some of Greg's "testing" of the GRCS a while back, interesting stuff.

I would like to add that in catching big wood, it is a static drop. No run in the line. Slaming, bombing onto the block...

It has been a rare occasion for me to have to do this on a tall spar.

Notching the spar to recess the rigging sling is a good thing, this is what they used to call false crotching before the advent of friction savers and the like. People look at me blankly these days when I talk of it.

As for slings, many people like the adjusting slings like loopies, but I feel that if you have to catch a big load. I've seen loopies melt because of the friction on tightening.

 

[jomoco]

Don't know if you have seen this video clip, but in 2004 Ken Johnson (I'm pretty sure that's his name) (and others) made a video Hobbs vs GCRS drop catching big wood. They took this process to failure with a volvo. It can be found on Ekka's website.

D Mc

I'd love to watch it, does it have a title? Is there a link to Ekka's website?

Thanks

jomoco

 

[treesquirrel]

As for slings, many people like the adjusting slings like loopies, but I feel that if you have to catch a big load. I've seen loopies melt because of the friction on tightening.

I will use my loopie on small and medium sized stuff but resort back to the super strong tenex eye sling for da big stuff. Ive seen slings melted/welded together due to force on stuff that is really not that big but once you compound the impact force it is really easy to see how this happens.

 

[jomoco]

Gerry B. put it on a DVD for Greg Good. There was some big wood.

I saw some of Greg's "testing" of the GRCS a while back, interesting stuff.

I would like to add that in catching big wood, it is a static drop. No run in the line. Slaming, bombing onto the block...

It has been a rare occasion for me to have to do this on a tall spar.

Notching the spar to recess the rigging sling is a good thing, this is what they used to call false crotching before the advent of friction savers and the like. People look at me blankly these days when I talk of it.

As for slings, many people like the adjusting slings like loopies, but I feel that if you have to catch a big load. I've seen loopies melt because of the friction on tightening.

JPS Quote

Notching the spar to recess the rigging sling is a good thing, this is what they used to call false crotching before the advent of friction savers and the like. People look at me blankly these days when I talk of it.

End Quote

I don't mean to come off as contrary JPS, but my understanding of false crotching is somewhat different. When I learned how to false crotch in the mid 70's on a vertical smooth trunk. It consisted of tying a bull line above my nyebuck lanyard in a half hicth then a timber hitch termination on the piece to be lowered, the cut was then made between the half hitch and timber hitch, special care had to be taken to ensure that the piece being lowered fell over in a specific direction to ensure it crossed over the bull line forming a type of friction cross over hitch that actually ran on top of the nyebuck lanyard as it was lowered very slowly by the groundmen below.

Needless to say, this was very hard on both the bull line and lanyard, and I always had my climbing line snugged up tight below the nyebuck lanyard as a back up in case the lanyard got burned through by the bull line if the groundmen got careless and let the piece down too quickly.

I went through alot of bull lines and lanyards in those days, but developed a huge admiration for how tough those nyebuck lanyards really are at resisting friction induced heat.

I'm not saying that this was the only method, or even the correct method of false crotching used in those days, but simply that it was the quick method of false crotching taught to me at that time. I soon learned to use a pulley block to eliminate or atleast drastically minimize the friction and heat involved in the procedure, but in my neck of the woods the use of a pulley changed the name from false crotching the wood down to blocking the wood down.

It could very well be that these terms change names depending on where you are in the country, or even who taught you the technique.

I'm always interested in different techniques used by others and what they're called.

Respectfully

jomoco

 

[joesawer]

Years ago we used to cut a notch in the trunk to lower with and called this a false crotch.
When lowering or craning heavy pieces I will often cut a notch in the piece to keep the rope or choker from coming off. I will also use a notch keep the choker holding a pully from being able to slide down while lowering heavy pieces.

 

[ropensaddle]

I don't mean to come off as contrary JPS, but my understanding of false crotching is somewhat different. When I learned how to false crotch in the mid 70's on a vertical smooth trunk. It consisted of tying a bull line above my nyebuck lanyard in a half hicth then a timber hitch termination on the piece to be lowered, the cut was then made between the half hitch and timber hitch, special care had to be taken to ensure that the piece being lowered fell over in a specific direction to ensure it crossed over the bull line forming a type of friction cross over hitch that actually ran on top of the nyebuck lanyard as it was lowered very slowly by the groundmen below.

Needless to say, this was very hard on both the bull line and lanyard, and I always had my climbing line snugged up tight below the nyebuck lanyard as a back up in case the lanyard got burned through by the bull line if the groundmen got careless and let the piece down too quickly.

I went through alot of bull lines and lanyards in those days, but developed a huge admiration for how tough those nyebuck lanyards really are at resisting friction induced heat.

I'm not saying that this was the only method, or even the correct method of false crotching used in those days, but simply that it was the quick method of false crotching taught to me at that time. I soon learned to use a pulley block to eliminate or atleast drastically minimize the friction and heat involved in the procedure, but in my neck of the woods the use of a pulley changed the name from false crotching the wood down to blocking the wood down.

It could very well be that these terms change names depending on where you are in the country, or even who taught you the technique.

I'm always interested in different techniques used by others and what they're called.

Respectfully

jomoco

If my memory serves me correct today we called
that a butt tie but I may be forgetting again!
I no I am wrong about this but what I was under the impression
a false crotch was back then was more like a speedline is today
with it going from live tree to live tree with a tie in point tied in
to position climber over a dead tree to prevent his weight from
being loaded on the dead tree!

 

[jomoco]

If my memory serves me correct today we called
that a butt tie but I may be forgetting again!
I no I am wrong about this but what I was under the impression
a false crotch was back then was more like a speedline is today
with it going from live tree to live tree with a tie in point tied in
to position climber over a dead tree to prevent his weight from
being loaded on the dead tree!

Interesting, sounds like a travois line, I believe something very similar to that was, and perhaps still is used to start the initial bridge building process over a river or gorge.

jomoco

 

[ropensaddle]

Interesting, sounds like a travois line, I believe something very similar to that was, and perhaps still is used to start the initial bridge building process over a river or gorge.

jomoco

I have done whatever it was called with success but was pita to set up!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Interesting, sounds like a travois line, I believe something very similar to that was, and perhaps still is used to start the initial bridge building process over a river or gorge.

jomoco

Tyrolean traverse

Years ago we used to cut a notch in the trunk to lower with and called this a false crotch.

Does anyone have either Don B. or Gerry B's book? I think I first saw it in one of those many many moons ago

It consisted of tying a bull line above my nyebuck lanyard in a half hicth then a timber hitch termination on the piece to be lowered, the cut was then made between the half hitch and timber hitch, special care had to be taken to ensure that the piece being lowered fell over in a specific direction to ensure it crossed over the bull line forming a type of friction cross over hitch that actually ran on top of the nyebuck lanyard as it was lowered very slowly by the groundmen below.

I'm having troubles picturing this, It sounds like a marl over the buckstrap, which is what I know as a butt tie or hitch.

As stated above and elsewhere the false crotch was cut into the tree to allow the butt hitch to work better and not run down onto the climber. I remember an recommendation the the floor of the FC cut should slope down and in to the trunk to better hold the line into the spar. I only did this a few times on a spar, I never liked having the rope running around the spar in front of me like that.

Oxman has a vid of it from a few years ago. It may still be on this site, but he had a tantrum and deleted a lot of his posts.

 

[D Mc]

You would think with the time period I started tree work that I would be very familiar with the false crotch technique as you guys are describing. Not so. I am wracking my brain trying to go that far and even my earliest rigging was either natural crotch or block.

I was very fortunate to begin my climbing under the guidance of Ed Hobbs who was extremely inventive and not willing to blindly continue using a technique that obviously had flaws.

That technique in particular was used extensively with manila ropes, no melt factor there. And was pretty aweful on synthetic ropes. Especially the first synthetics that came out that didn't have the high melt factors of the ropes on the market today.

For you new guys, this is a technique that should be archived not used. There are better, safer ways now.

Back to lowering, it has been my experience that if a tree is healthy, sound with no structural flaws it can withstand the stress of lowering off of itself. Albeit, some specific tree structure may require inventive redirects to keep the loads properly aligned. Has anyone had a failure lowering blocks or tops that was not foreseeable or diagnosable after the fact?


D Mc

 

[beastmaster]

Thing have changed a lot over the years. In the early 80's when I climb for Calif dept of forestry(CDF) We removed a lot of bug trees everyday that had to be blocked down. We would leave short stubs on the way up and hook our big (heavy)pulleys on useing a cable choker ,and run our 1"1/8 bull line to another choker and pulley at the base of the tree and then tie off on a convenient tree.(Yes we probably damaged a lot of third party trees) When ever possible we would try to let the piece being catch-ed run some. The ground guy would make one rap around the tree being used for a brake, coil the amount of rope wanted for the piece to run, then make several more raps around the tree. When the piece was cut ,as it was falling the groundsman would throw the coil of line towards the raps. The first single rap would run through, slowing the piece down some, and then when the slack was used up the other raps would stop it. this tech. took a lot of the shock out. This was a running catch, compared to just catching it, a dead drop catch. We have a lot of cool stuff now, but back then it was just the basics.Rope and pulleys. We alway put our safty lines above the rigging, a habit I still do today.

 

[jomoco]

Ok, I'm sure that the object of this thread is to learn about techniques for catching big wood and methods and tricks for making it a safer and more controllable practice.

In this post, I'd like to elaborate on two sneaky techniques that I use that helps me keep both hands free at the critical moment that you need them to push against the remaining spar to move as one with the spar throughout the violence of the ride as the load is caught and lowered.

To me, catching wood on a vertical spar is always easier than catching wood on a leaning spar regardless of wood size, so I'll start with what I feel is the hardest, the sole leaning spar that has to be caught and lowered.

Every climber who catches wood is concerned about his ability to stabilize himself during the bull ride so as not to be beaten to a bloody pulp by the spar as it violently moves back and forth in front of him, the ability to use both hands to push against the spar at this time helps tremendously.

The dilemma posed by catching wood on a leaning spar is that at the moment the finish cut is completed, gravity very quickly takes over and the load slides off while the climber still has the chainsaw in his hands as the ride starts. Most climbers in this situation use a chainsaw lanyard that allows them to simply drop the saw in the second or so between the cut being completed and the ride starting. Unfortunately the same gravity acting on the load also applies to the saw when it's dropped, they both tend to find themselves in the same general area and getting together, particularly when working a leaning spar, it's a functional truth of gravity that has crushed many very expensive Stihl chain saws.

I use a very sneaky method to avoid this problem, but I want to emphasize that the saw lanyard should always be used a a backup in case things don't work out as planned. All that's needed to avoid crushed saws in this situation are a very sharp hand saw and a couple of the small plastic climbing wedges.

Ok, back cut is made, bull line is tied and pretensioned with the Hobbs, all systems are go, now take your saw and start your finish cut on either side at the same point to intersect with your back cut, which side you start the cut on will depend on whether your right or left handed, I'm right handed so I start on the left side making sure that my bar tip actually intersects the back cut as I work my way around on the finish cut so that in effect I have a shrinking triangle of holding wood keeping the load piece from sliding off the spar. At the point that you are about two thirds of the way through the finish cut, stop, secure your saw, then work your way back around to the point where you started your finish cut at the intersection with the back cut and place one of the small wedges into the finish about 180 degrees from where the finish cut will be completed on the other side, this wedge will keep the wood from binding your saw as the triangular holding wood shrinks as you resume cutting on the other side. Ok, wedge is in place, we're back on the other side and are cutting again with the saw, and the triangle of holding wood is getting smaller as the moment of truth approaches.

It is at this point that a couple of important things need to be calculated, how much lean does the spar have, and how heavy is the wood piece to be caught? If the spar lean is substantial, and the wood to be caught quite heavy, the triangular piece of holding wood you want to leave in place may need to be about 4-6 inches deep towards the center of the wood and atleast an inch wide on the outside edge, as you approach these dimensions as your cutting with your chainsaw, slow down and keep an eagle eye on the cut as you judge the size of the remaining uncut triangle of holding wood's ability to hold the load piece in place, when you're satisfied that the remaining triangle of holding wood can be easily finished with your hand saw, stop cutting and clip your chainsaw onto your saddle. After double checking everything in the system, brace yourself, alert your rope handlers that the fun is about to start, then cut the remaining holding wood with the handsaw to release the piece to be caught, you have your choice of either dropping the handsaw immediately after the cut and having it sent back up on the bull line, or using a wrist lanyard to retain it as I do.

This method allows me to use both hands to push against the remaining spar to stabilize myself during the ride, while also retaining my chainsaw safe and secure at my side.

Criticism and comments on this unusual method are encouraged, and better and safer techniques for accomplishing the same thing even more so.

Next subject question, how do you facilitate getting a very heavy piece of wood to be caught off a vertical spar after the finish cut has been made, and it's just stubbornly sitting there on your wedges?

Work safe!

jomoco

 

[lxt]

jomoco, I do round the edges of the notch pocket, the rig may be 180deg or less depending on setup.

the bull ride you talk about, honestly if you have a good groundie runnin ropes the climber wont take that beat ya to a pulp ride your talking about. In big wood "spars" that I have done & my other climber has done there is barely any whiplash ride, just the big conking sound when the wood hits the side of the spar!!!!

theres a ton of ways to chunk down, experiment on smaller stuff & find what technique you like & use it!!!!


LXT.....................