Matt Hogden
ArboristSite Guru
Yep. Then trying to force you to make another purchase to get the missing parts.
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The HUZTL scam
- Thread starter Matt Hogden
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I'm not aware of anyone selling complete cloned cars in a box.
Matt Hogden
ArboristSite Guru
So for clarification, you are ok with aftermarket parts but not complete aftermarket kits/saws? I can see that position but also see nothing wrong with Huztl or HL Supply putting all the parts in a box.
In the end, it's a free market and people can decide for themselves.
I suppose you might feel different if they were ripping off your hard work/product, under cutting your margin and trying to pass of as the same.
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Why hasn't Stihl buried them in court?
Lucas Mills, a much smaller company than Stihl, based in Australia, got a court win against a Chinese business for IP infringements a wee while ago. In the Chinese court system, no less.
My point was that you can't decide which products become available in the aftermarket. Whether they be for a car, saw or fidget spinner. The market decides what is cost effective to replicate and consumers decide on their purchase. We can't exclude saws simply because we'd like to.
I'm trying to figure out why I owe Stihl anything. Maybe I should be grateful that they put the U.S. saw makers out of business because of our lax policy toward foreign companies and then be all indignant over the Chinese.
More like greedy management/executives put US saw makers out of business, just like the automakers and other US industries.
I see the new Stihl designed chainsaws that look basically like my 3400 Poulan saw, who copied who?
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I do think there is a difference between selling replacement parts vs. a complete clone, but that is for the manufacturers to deal with. If they won't defend their trademarks/tradenames/patents it's certainly not my responsibility to do so. My 19 year old car is full of aftermarket parts. I just put in a front crank seal branded as Felpro, made in Mexico. I doubt that Ford made the original seal, and if I bought one at the dealer it would be some aftermarket part branded as Motorcraft. I would never buy a vehicle if I had to get all the parts from the original manufacturer.
The chainsaw clones I have are Zenoah-based designs, and it is clear to me they had some sort of licensing/production agreement, as they have sold them as Zenoah products. The no-name clone was missing parts and had things mis-assembled, but the Earthquake did not. The missing parts were replaced for free. Both of them are used regularly, run great and are dead sold reliable, even though the castings are rough (granted that the Earthquake has been heavily modified). They would not be appropriate for pro use, but they were not intended for that. I doubt I'd buy an assembled clone made to look like the real saw otherwise - but how about a kit of aftermarket parts sold as such? What about old and out of production designs, like a replica '32 Ford or '66 Mustang?
Excessive clearances, rough castings and pitted chrome are the norm, but the pitting would have to be extreme to make any difference at all, and castings can be cleaned up. I have to laugh at some people's expectations for a dirt cheap chainsaw that is shipped across the world. That and the starry-eyed wonder at the magical parts from Germany or Sweden, as if the parts got sprinkled with fairy dust just because they come from Europe. Chainsaws are not particularly sophisticated machines, and they've pretty much been commodity items for a long time. Anyone could make the parts, of any quality desired, including the Chinese if you were willing to pay them the profit margins. Strato and feedback carbs are about the only things that have happened recently, and the Chinese can't sell those here. Ironic that if not for the emissions laws the Chinese would own at least the lower end of the market already (they may soon anyway), and that everyone hates the American made saws even more than the Chinese ones.
The chainsaw clones I have are Zenoah-based designs, and it is clear to me they had some sort of licensing/production agreement, as they have sold them as Zenoah products. The no-name clone was missing parts and had things mis-assembled, but the Earthquake did not. The missing parts were replaced for free. Both of them are used regularly, run great and are dead sold reliable, even though the castings are rough (granted that the Earthquake has been heavily modified). They would not be appropriate for pro use, but they were not intended for that. I doubt I'd buy an assembled clone made to look like the real saw otherwise - but how about a kit of aftermarket parts sold as such? What about old and out of production designs, like a replica '32 Ford or '66 Mustang?
Excessive clearances, rough castings and pitted chrome are the norm, but the pitting would have to be extreme to make any difference at all, and castings can be cleaned up. I have to laugh at some people's expectations for a dirt cheap chainsaw that is shipped across the world. That and the starry-eyed wonder at the magical parts from Germany or Sweden, as if the parts got sprinkled with fairy dust just because they come from Europe. Chainsaws are not particularly sophisticated machines, and they've pretty much been commodity items for a long time. Anyone could make the parts, of any quality desired, including the Chinese if you were willing to pay them the profit margins. Strato and feedback carbs are about the only things that have happened recently, and the Chinese can't sell those here. Ironic that if not for the emissions laws the Chinese would own at least the lower end of the market already (they may soon anyway), and that everyone hates the American made saws even more than the Chinese ones.
TBS
I have chainsaws and chainsaw accessories.
Zomax makes strato saws that have epa approval and they are testing the waters here. You now buy a few models of their strato saws from Alibaba as individual items.
With a name like " zero junk " I would think the China crap would bother you.
jr27236
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well now this thread is turning into an economics topic. Greedy execs..yes but US companies are not going out of business due to solely greedy execs. It starts from the top with government taxing (fed/state/county/city/town) down to US as the end employee demanding higher pay due to the cost of living in our country. Companies are FORCED to leave and go the China/Mexico route due to salaries being a fraction of ours, no benefits of any kind provided, its basically slave labor and no EPA, labor, osha, oeeo, permit, rules (the list goes on) . So off to china/mexico it all goes with Zero quailty control or "technicians" and we ***** because we paid $10 for a item we clearly knew we were rolling the dice on to begin with because otherwise youd be paying $100 because thats what has to be charged to cover the cost of providing a legitimate quality product and follow the "rules".
Now you've identified the disease, how about a workable cure that won't kill the patient.
Bobby Kirbos
Scrounger of Cellulose Based BTUs
Here are 3 places to begin treatment. I suggest a simultaneous 3 way "attack".
- Cut the corporate tax rates and making manufacturing feel welcome again in the USA.
- Tell the unions to go fk themselves; they have long outlived their usefulness and are now detriment to business. There was a time in history when the worker was being taken advantage of and the unions were necessary to help the worker take some of that power back. That pendulum has now swung to the opposite extreme.
- EPA - full of extremist enviro-nuts. As someone who enjoys the outdoors (camping, hunting, kayaking, biking, etc) , I understand the need for the EPA and I think it is a good thing, but do they not see the stupid here -- Let's raise clean air/water/land requirements so high that companies don't want to spend the millions of dollars necessary to meet the new requirements, so those companies move their operations to other countries (with lower labor costs and lower tax rates) where there are no environmental standards and they pollute worse than they did when they were here in the USA. Only a bunch of morons would think that was a good idea. Probably the same bunch of morons that have battery powered or plug-in electric lawn mowers because "they don't pollute" .
Conquistador3
Le Comte de Frou Frou
I'm a believer in moderation in all things, including moderation. Your approach is to nuke the EPA, nuke unions, and let the fox run the hen house. Good luck with that, and God help the USA if any of that comes to pass.Here are 3 places to begin treatment. I suggest a simultaneous 3 way "attack".
- Cut the corporate tax rates and making manufacturing feel welcome again in the USA.
- Tell the unions to go fk themselves; they have long outlived their usefulness and are now detriment to business. There was a time in history when the worker was being taken advantage of and the unions were necessary to help the worker take some of that power back. That pendulum has now swung to the opposite extreme.
- EPA - full of extremist enviro-nuts. As someone who enjoys the outdoors (camping, hunting, kayaking, biking, etc) , I understand the need for the EPA and I think it is a good thing, but do they not see the stupid here -- Let's raise clean air/water/land requirements so high that companies don't want to spend the millions of dollars necessary to meet the new requirements, so those companies move their operations to other countries (with lower labor costs and lower tax rates) where there are no environmental standards and they pollute worse than they did when they were here in the USA. Only a bunch of morons would think that was a good idea. Probably the same bunch of morons that have battery powered or plug-in electric lawn mowers because "they don't pollute"
Look at General Electric, they were a booming American company, they left a toxic legacy in their closed factories while they executives made 100X the amount overseas companies paid their CEOs (e.g. Japan). When they moved everything out overseas they have continued to pillage the company and even with overseas labor they are going belly up, but executives don't give a rats ass as they are still rolling in $$$.
Look at GM (aka Government Motors) we bailed them out and the FIRST thing they did, was build a brand new factory, in BRAZIL! $H!T, what GM still puts together here is made with 95% shipped in components.
And yes it's our greedy government/politicians too. They both are crooked as a tangle of fishing line. Take the EPA for example, they let GE off with superfund sites left soiled. One of the EPA executives took a job at GE after sealing GEs toxic legacy under the rug. When the ugly pollution rises it's head GE will be bankrupted and America will be left to pay for the cleanup that was never done.
So go buy a huztl..........
