The not-so-difficult to run EPA stove
- Thread starter Steve NW WI
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Eric Modell
ArboristSite Operative
Because of these two threads I am going to seriously look at a Jotul. A company that built smoked dragons for longer then any of us have been alive and still meet EPA standards with a tweak or two must be a good stove.
Eric Modell
ArboristSite Operative
How may smoke dragons copied Jotuls designs? Is an older Jotul a smoke Dinosaur?
Don't know if this was posted before http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...-chilling-consequences-for-many-rural-people/
The last sentence says it all, with all the GW why worry about a handfull of wood stove's?
The last sentence says it all, with all the GW why worry about a handfull of wood stove's?
Last edited:
Eric Modell
ArboristSite Operative
I can not see buying a cat stove were standard maintenance will cost me more then the purchase price of both my curnet stoves put together. In the past 25 five years burning my Earth stove, I have replaced the door gasket onece and replaced a few fie brick. I like low maintenance in a stove. Jotuls were off my list because I had preconceived ideas about cast iron being high maintenance.
sunfish
Fish Head
I feel the same way, I do not want a cat stove, or any stove that needs regular maintenance and stuff replaced. That's mostly why I bought a Jotul.
I think I mentioned earlier I have two cast iron stoves in my shop used daily that are 24 years old and still working fine...
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I think maintainability is important too - I want an efficient stove but I'm not expecting good things from the economy in the coming years. I don't want to have to replace parts, nor to count on the supply of those parts. So for me a cat stove makes no sense - I'm not willing to accept the added complexity and requirement to buy new cats for the efficiency increase over a secondary combustion stove. When we bought our small stove I looked at various units, including a VC stove that had very complex ceramic firebox parts. The Hampton we ended up with has simple liner shapes that I have a reasonable chance of replicating myself if needed. It also works exceedingly well.I feel the same way, I do not want a cat stove, or any stove that needs regular maintenance and stuff replaced. That's mostly why I bought a Jotul.
I think I mentioned earlier I have two cast iron stoves in my shop used daily that are 24 years old and still working fine...
Part of the beauty and the attraction of a wood stove for me is the simplicity. It works by virtue of parts that don't move and are made of durable materials cast into purposeful shapes.
OK, that Forbes piece, written just two days ago, really makes me angry‼
Larry Bell must be a member of AS... and I've been plagiarized damnit‼
He says all the same things I've been saying for months, even years... he even has the audacity to use my exact wording several times.
I mean, c'mon, when he mentions the EPA's "one-size-fits-all rules", he don't even bother to remove the dashes I use‼
He's got some... friggin'... nerve‼
Which one of you guys is Larry Bell anyway??
Well... you and Forbes owe me... big time‼
*
on the nailhead,,,,,,,AGAIN.. repeatability,,reveals someone,no????
flyboy553
Oakaholic
Man I love this thread and others like it! Should be titled "As The Smoke Turns"! There is more drama here than any tv soap could hope for! We have good guys, bad guys, neutral guys, pot stirrers, we got it all! And best part, who these good/bad/neutral/stirrer guys are, is all in the eye of the reader! Who could ask for more!!
Of course if it was changed to that, some would complain because there stove doesn't make any smoke! lol
Ol' Steve knew what he was doing when he started this thread! He must be a moderatroll! lol JK Steve, don't go bannin' me now!
Ted
Of course if it was changed to that, some would complain because there stove doesn't make any smoke! lol
Ol' Steve knew what he was doing when he started this thread! He must be a moderatroll! lol JK Steve, don't go bannin' me now!
Ted
Well put flyboy, when you troll with this many fish in the barrel you are bound to get many bites.
Bushmans
Smoke Dragon Herder
So now all you poor people will be required to shell out money you don't have to meet our standards because frankly we don't care about poor people.....
WOW it's like a slap in the face to all low income wood burners.
That would be like getting rid of hamburger and forcing us all to buy steak because the electric grinders use electricity made from the burning of coal which produces emissions BUT slicing a steak with a knife is perfectly healthy for our atmosphere because it only uses energy produced from the human body!
So irritating!
Vermonster
ArboristSite Operative
That's not true Del_,
The EPA has proposed new standards that include new stoves manufactured/sold in 2015.
Allowable emissions would be reduced by one-third in 2015, and 80% by 2019.
The reason these are called "proposed" is because of federal law requiring them to give ample time for feedback/challenges from anyone concerned (such as manufacturers, environmental groups, local/state governments and whatnot). The EPA is not required to make changes from this feedback, but concerned parties may dispute it in the court systems if they choose (or in congressional hearings as the auto makers did some decades ago). They must also give this time period so effected parties have time to "gear-up" for the new regs. Rarely does the EPA make changes between "proposed" and "final" rule... except on occasion to appease their friends the tree-huggers (my words), usually by covering their agenda through those bogus court proceedings described in that Forbes piece. The "final" rule is expected in early 2015, and will become effective near immediately. As it is worded now, any appliance manufactured and for retail sale prior to the rule becoming effective, will be exempt... any appliance manufactured after the effective date will need to meet the new 2015 standards. If any changes are made to the "proposed" rules, then the EPA must allow another "feedback" and "gearing-up" time period... so the chance of "final" rule being different than "proposed" rule is pretty much zilch‼
Unless some group, on either side of this, mounts a determined and well funded challenge in the court systems... those "proposed" regulations are in fact "set in stone".
*
Time to stock up on them old dirty stoves then sell them later to ones that want heat.
According to current wording and how it would be interpenetrated... you could be fined or possibly even jailed for doing that.
*
So at some point in time you will not be able to sell used pre EPA stoves?
Time to stock up on them old dirty stoves then sell them later to ones that want heat.
Yes, do that.
I for one, don't want a rusted out, dented, needs some work, beater woodstove in my living room. Vermonster is right. A lot of drama, mostly by a few guys who are afraid. The majority of folks will purchase a stove that looks good and works. We don't care about it being EPA approved. The stoves work well and look good, and that's what matters. No way would I want that Whitespider modified (ruined?) stove in my house.
Yes, buy up the old stoves. Maybe the scrap market will skyrocket, or not.
I don't think any of the non-believers are reading my posts, but once again, we've had extremely strict standards beyond the national in our state. People still heat with wood--I do, and our stoves still heat the house well. That's the bottom line. The super regulated stoves still work, and will heat the house, even when the power goes off. Plus, they cost the same as a good quality nice looking woodstove always has. You pay a little more. I don't mind. I had a coworker who bought one of those super cheap cast iron stoves and her house burned down the first winter it was used, because of the stove. How is that cost efficient? I don't think I've seen safety mentioned much in this thread of manly emotions.
Whine and beat your chests. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my nice Warshington EPA regulated stove. It's doing a wonderful job and fits in with my decor.
As it is worded, and depending on interpretation...
You will not be able to transfer ownership in any way or move the location of installation.
In other words, if you sell your home you will not "legally" be able to take an older (pre-2015) stove with you to the new home, nor will you be able to leave it for the new homeowner... it would have to be removed and destroyed. Again, as it reads and depending on how it is applied, any appliance you currently own, but are not using (such as stored in a shed) cannot be "legally" installed anywhere. The exemptions only include appliances currently in use and those currently for new retail sale. If you buy 50 of them today they become "used" stoves... you are not a "retailer", you bought them at retail, you are the consumer... you wouldn't be able to "legally" transfer ownership.
So slowp, your pre-2015 stove you love so much becomes a worthless hunk of iron if you ever decide to move, or even build a new home on your current property (unless you would like to pay the fee to have it re-certified at the new standard). These new regulations affect everyone owning, or using, a wood-fired appliance today‼ Even you slowp‼
*
Similar threads
