Those flue temps are when running wide open to start a fresh load of wood as per owners manual recommendations. When draft is closed down for a typical slower burn the thermo reads around 200.
The not-so-difficult to run EPA stove
- Thread starter Steve NW WI
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Now there is a big difference, mine stay high and always have with two different chimneys, I have the air all the way closed right now and the flue temp is about 550 or 600.
I have been fighting those high flue temps since day one, I can reduce the air quicker and all it does is slow it down, its still going high and staying there.
Like I said... never say never... but after one full season in the house, a half season in the shop, and likely some couple hundred post from y'all tellin' me what to look for... I ain't seein' anything wrong with the stove proper. As far as running it with the draft open (or more than ½ way); I don't, I already said it runs best somewhere between ½ and ¾ closed... I only stated what happens when I open it further to illustrate the secondary appears to be working well.
Does a "good stove shop" install per "installation instructions" or do they ignore them??
What is the draft supposed to be?? What is the flue temp supposed to be??
The "installation" manual doesn't say... it only gives symptoms of too little or too much draft in the "troubleshooting" section... none of which I am experiencing. As far as the chimney... forget the one I used last year in the house, that's past history, it will never be used with that stove again. How about we all turn to the same page... OK?
The "installation" manual specifies a chimney of the same diameter as the stove outlet, a minimum height of 15 feet from the base of the appliance and three feet above the peak... it is now connected to a chimney of specified diameter, at a height of 16 feet from the top of the appliance (about 18 from the base) and three feet above the peak. That is all the "installation" manual specifies, nothing more... no manometer readings, no temperature readings, and mentions absolutely nothing about any dampers of any sort.
What friggin' good are all these measurements and readings if there ain't any "standard" listed??
I believe you... and I'm not even claiming this is a PE problem. If you go back and read the threads from last year it was more than just PE owners stating some, or all of the same issues to the same of lesser degrees... at the same time, many claimed to have none. I don't remember who it was now, but he and his mother (or M-I-L) each had the same (PE?) stoves, installed in two different houses across the road from each other... one worked perfectly, but they were constantly shoveling coals out of the other to make room for more wood and get more heat. I've also done some other research and such; I am convinced that "secondary combustion" stoves are more likely to be finicky depending on variables (some professional installers even stated such)... and sometimes, under certain conditions, the issues cannot be remedied satisfactorily. There also seems to be a pattern of sorts, where northern or colder areas of the country have significantly more problems that tend to get worse as temperatures drop... which is what both oldspark and I are saying (and others have in the past). Yeah, some of that can be contributed to the firebox being too small, but that only adds to the finicky side... sure, I've had problems with smaller (old-style) boxes keeping up with heat demand for short periods (such as early morning before sunup), but they didn't give me these no heat, coal build-up, "pull-your-hair-out" problems. They still would heat, and kept heating... ya' just opened the draft a bit more, and slid your chair a bit closer. (shrug)
What it comes down to is... I'm not interested in finicky...
I am not denying they work good... when they work.
*
I'd be willing to make a friendly bet with anyone here...
As the new EPA regulation are implemented, and if the non-cat stoves survive them, I'm bettin' these issues will become more common and widespread.
Any takers??
*
As the new EPA regulation are implemented, and if the non-cat stoves survive them, I'm bettin' these issues will become more common and widespread.
Any takers??
*
zogger
Tree Freak
Ain't got an epa stove dog in the fight, zero experience.
With that said, people getting hip to actual dried wood versus cut this year in the spring or summer, full sap, kinda sorta split sometime before delivery brand "seasoned" wood will be addressed more and more as a bad idea. As will sales of moisture meters go up. Ya, need to calibrate against gravitational pull and tree subspecies, etc, bleh and meh..they work well enough to get a ballpark for anyone between low 20s delivered wood and down in the low teens.
If I was a CL bulk wood seller, I would have several pics showing a nice low moisture content, pics of stacks well up off the ground, and the actual date, within a week or two range perhaps, that they were stacked up, showing at least two years cut/split/stacked. Heck, you could prove it with one pic showing a newspaper with the date in front of the wood, or at least that would be an attempt to verify for the buyer.
I am amazed at how chintzy dudes are with their free CL ads, at best you might see a pile of wood in the back of a truck and like one txt speek sentence.
The green wood crap beer money sellers are gonna fall by the wayside eventually, as people realize their unseasoned wood, no matter how cheap or pretty looking, just slap doesn't work in most stoves. it will burn eventually, and throw not much heat, just smoke and moving cold air into and out of the house.
I have seen it in my own neighborhood lately, the few people down the street as I go into town who burn wood, all of them are out of seasoned, been watching their stacks shrink, now you see new stacks of what looks like cut a couple months ago max wood, dang stuff looks fresh. I think I am the only guy around here who has multiple years ahead that I can see.
Has to make a difference, smoke dragon or epa.
zogger, I made the comment some where about people discovering dry wood for the first time after being forced into it with the EPA stove.
A lot of people like to say the old stoves were crap, come to find out they were burning wet wood in their pre EPA stoves which very well could have partly led to the EPA regulations we have now.
You have to be smarter then the wood you are putting in the stove to get a good clean burn EPA stove or not.
A lot of people like to say the old stoves were crap, come to find out they were burning wet wood in their pre EPA stoves which very well could have partly led to the EPA regulations we have now.
You have to be smarter then the wood you are putting in the stove to get a good clean burn EPA stove or not.
Any coaling problem with my EPA stove is attributed to not dry enough wood. My older stoves a Ben Franklin and a converted Franklin that was air tight could burn most any wood with no problems.
Mine makes coals from dry newspaper.
zogger
Tree Freak
Yep. My wood is all outside so it gets that gray weathered look and is well cracked when it truly is dry enough to burn well. I see people burning stuff that is fresh clean pretty looking on the ends. I have no idea how that burns, heck, I'll throw chunks into a pile for restacking later if I don't like them when they come off of the this years stack. I am not bringing them into the house, waste of time, hissy smoulder wood. Not cracked enough or enough gray, still seems a little heavy for the size, heck with it, throw in a pile for next years wood.
I guess if wood is in a shed from being fresh split it might not discolor bad, at least for a long time, but I don't know either, only burned from a shed once and that wood was so old it had grayed as well.
That is so not true and all you have to do is read posts by many who went through the last cold spell.
My wood is plenty dry
From woodheat.org
"In cold weather the coal bed can build up so there is hardly room for more wood, and still you're freezing. Here's the solution.
Big coal beds are a particular problem with EPA certified non-catalytic stoves because their insulated fireboxes and high temperatures tend to cook out the volatile gases quickly, leaving a big load of charcoal. This isn't much of a problem during moderate weather because the coal bed can do an adequate heating job.
But when the weather gets very cold, a coal bed is not enough to heat a house and the big coal bed gets in the way of adding more wood. The solution is to rake the coals towards the primary air inlet, place one log on the pile of coals and burn it fast. The primary air on almost all modern wood stoves is the airwash for the glass, so rake towards the glass door."
Good catch my bad.
I've had both kinds of stoves. I had an Earth Stove, a Schrader, and an old scary Fischer. The new Quadrafire isn't any different as far as fire taking off time. Here in the land of mildew and mildish climate, I start it fresh, with kindling every morning because I don't want a warm house at night. The house temp only drops into the 50s and probably wouldn't go that low if I didn't have a window open at night.
After a couple wet winters, it finally dawned on me to bring in a crate of kindling about a week to get it really dry. Now the kindling takes right off and there's no more failed attempts at lighting the fire in the morning.
I have a ranch style 1400 sq. ft. house which the stove heats. I regulate the temps by opening doors of closed rooms and sometimes have to open a window to keep it below sauna temp.
As far as operation, I don't notice any difference. I think the Quadrafire heats up quicker? Maybe not. I'll back up Steve's conclusion.
Friends of mine had to replace their old stove. They hated the new stove. It smoked their house up.
They talked to the stove guy and ended up having their chimney relined and now they like their EPA and additional Warshington State regulated stove. Yup, our state goes tougher than national requirements. Our stoves still work fine.
After a couple wet winters, it finally dawned on me to bring in a crate of kindling about a week to get it really dry. Now the kindling takes right off and there's no more failed attempts at lighting the fire in the morning.
I have a ranch style 1400 sq. ft. house which the stove heats. I regulate the temps by opening doors of closed rooms and sometimes have to open a window to keep it below sauna temp.
As far as operation, I don't notice any difference. I think the Quadrafire heats up quicker? Maybe not. I'll back up Steve's conclusion.
Friends of mine had to replace their old stove. They hated the new stove. It smoked their house up.
They talked to the stove guy and ended up having their chimney relined and now they like their EPA and additional Warshington State regulated stove. Yup, our state goes tougher than national requirements. Our stoves still work fine.
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My coals when its cold and its known why they do it, just pointing out the fact.
My stove with my set up sucks for some reason and not sure why.
Which one is that?
I don't think my stove is that hard to run just it has flue temps through the roof and stove top is not as hot as I like and when very cold it turns into a charcoal factory.
Now if I can fix all that with a flue damper I will be one happy camper.
Now if I can fix all that with a flue damper I will be one happy camper.
Cerran
Addicted to ArboristSite
No more issues than non-epa stoves I bet.
sunfish
Fish Head
Just another reason I bought a Jotul and like them so much!
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