Tie off knots for srt

[Ghillie]

That's a lot-a hardware to wind up with a friction hitch and no stopper knot, don't ya think? Even with a stopper knot if the hitch slipped...

Good eye! Yes I do think that is a lot of hardware just for SRT. And I would DEFINITELY put a stopper close to the final adjustment point of the prussik.

I would have to guess it was an oversite judging by the munter and tie off backup on the SRT line (why would he backup one and not the other).

Rich was trying to get a ton of info into a short time span. The whole class he stressed safety and simple backups like stoppers. It is still an oversight though.

Aaaaannnnnnddd, a good example of what can happen when you add more hardware to your rig. Little mistakes. that can make a BIG difference.

For what he was doing (AFC) and adjustable tie-off was not necessary but it was an option.

 

[Ghillie]

The best one for me is not need to isolate two lines. Find a sturdy branch, pull you line over it, tie off and up you go. The ascenders are the other part to making srt easier and more efficent but that's for another thread. I am looking for what climbers are using to tie off the end of the line.

Is there a specific problem you are trying to address or just trying to fill your "tool box" with options?

 

[Adkpk]

Is there a specific problem you are trying to address or just trying to fill your "tool box" with options?

Nothing specific, I would get specific if I had a need. Just shopping around looking and testing. Also thought it would make for some interesting postings.

Not all tree and circumstances in srt are the same. Smooth barked trees must pose a slippery challenge. Don't see any smooth bark tie off's yet but moss has several options which look like they would work. I've seen a tie off that moray did way back when but really don't how to begin to look for it. But as he stated he likes to use a separate line to rap the tree with. It was a sharp looking tie off that's for sure.

I get the filling your tool box comment but more like honing in on the best options. Keep the tie ins coming.

So far my bag of "things I don't need is to take with me" is only some 3 strand for making lanyards and my splicing kit.

 

[moss]

Don't see any smooth bark tie off's yet but moss has several options which look like they would work.

the two trunk ties I showed work very well on smooth bark. Once you load the rope everything holds tight, there's plenty of friction.
-moss

 

[moss]

Smooth barked trees

In particular the tie-off that uses 2 or 3 half hitches around the trunk above a timber hitch would probably hold on a polished stainless steel vertical cylinder. But it's best used when you're tying off on a small diameter trunk next to the tree you're climbing, uses too much rope on a wide diameter trunk.
-moss

 

[moss]

About tying off to a small tree near a the large one being climbed:

If it's a real windy day don't be surprised if you get a little srt rope movement as the tree sways. I've only had it happen a few times and it's been minor but when climbing right up to the crotch it does give a climber something to think about. If a large gust were to hit could the climber be pulled up to the crotch? Through the crotch? An over vivid imagination? Most likely!

Well, that could happen theoretically, never occurred to me I've been up in 45 mph wind to a plus 100 ft TIP on trunk tie and there was plenty of movement, side-to side and rotating (crown) but minimal up and down (rope movement). I would be sure to lanyard in in high wind anyway if I was near the TIP

EDIT: oops, faulty recollection, that was a cinched limb tie-in so TreeCo's scenario is more valid than I first thought
-moss

 

[moray]

This is an interesting point about the wind. Just one more of the MANY ways SRT is more complicated, and, in many respects, more hazardous than DRT. DRT is very forgiving; SRT will bite you in a second. Someone should start a thread about the numerous special concerns and hazards of SRT, or has this been done already?

 

[pdqdl]

I like Moss's 1/2 hitch method. Everybody should rely on that more often.

Finish with a full wrap and two half hitches, running bowline, figure 8, whatever you like.

 

[Adkpk]

This is an interesting point about the wind. Just one more of the MANY ways SRT is more complicated, and, in many respects, more hazardous than DRT. DRT is very forgiving; SRT will bite you in a second. Someone should start a thread about the numerous special concerns and hazards of SRT, or has this been done already?

Got my attention. I climbed srt yesterday with a storm-a-brewing and the only problem I had was when it started to rain. How about "hazards and special concerns with climbing srt". Ok that sounds good, I'll post it.

 

[moss]

I look at SRT and DRT as apples and oranges, one is better than the other depending on circumstances. For tree entry SRT has some ergonomic advantage over secured footlock, especially if it's a long haul going up. You folks likely know I'm a rec climber so my requirements are going to be a little different. I like DRT up in the crown so I'll use SRT to get into a tree where the first ascent is going to be in the 60-70'+ range, then switch over to DRT. The SRT line just stays where it is until I want to get out of the tree. Going up SRT I trail the DRT rope behind me with the top of the rope attached to my harness w/split tail and biner so when I get into the tree I just flip the biner/top of the DRT rope over a branch, clip in, detach from the SRT system and keep climbing.
-moss

 

[Adkpk]

Going up SRT I trail the DRT rope behind me with the top of the rope attached to my harness w/split tail and biner so when I get into the tree I just flip the biner/top of the DRT rope over a branch, clip in, detach from the SRT system and keep climbing.
-moss

I'll use that piece of info. Good idea. I think I'm going to try going back to the vt since I am ascending on the TTMS now. The vt was to short or to much going on using it to ascend. But in the canopy it would be handier to have the hitch closer to my dee ring. And if I keep it on my climbing line, as moss stated, I won't be bothered with tying a hitch up in the tree. good one moss.

Plus, I have another hank of rope coming. That way I can keep one rope specifically for canopy climbing. One for srt and one for ddrt.

 

[Ghillie]

I'll use that piece of info. Good idea. I think I'm going to try going back to the vt since I am ascending on the TTMS now. The vt was to short or to much going on using it to ascend. But in the canopy it would be handier to have the hitch closer to my dee ring. And if I keep it on my climbing line, as moss stated, I won't be bothered with tying a hitch up in the tree. good one moss.

Plus, I have another hank of rope coming. That way I can keep one rope specifically for canopy climbing. One for srt and one for ddrt.

What rope are you using for SRT?

The only ropes I have climbed SRT were PMI ez-bend 1/2" static kernmantle and I believe the other was New England KMIII but that has been a few years ago when I was getting into High Angle rescue techniques.

 

[Adkpk]

What rope are you using for SRT?

The only ropes I have climbed SRT were PMI ez-bend 1/2" static kernmantle and I believe the other was New England KMIII but that has been a few years ago when I was getting into High Angle rescue techniques.

Lava from sherrill, true blue and I have a hank of blaze coming in the mail.

 

[Ghillie]

Ghillie I just realized I missed a question you asked me a few days ago. Sorry about that. I climb srt on NE saftey Blue. I also have a 240ft. hank of NE KMIII that gets pulled out once a month or so. Ascenders work fine on 1/2 HiVee.

No problem. That's what I was wondering about, mech ascenders on 16 strand. I didn't want to put money into a dedicated SRT rope.

It's been so long I think it might have been KMII that I last used.

I'll have to look for the pictures of that school. The last day, we set up a traverse between the top of two 10 story towers. sent someone out to the middle, lowered them doen to ground level and then raised a simulated injured person and the rescuer back up and back over to the "landing sone". Really cool class. Taught by Russ Borne at Bowling Green Fire School.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I usually only srt for spikeless pruning on that dead damaged limb way up there. Big shot over a good limb, set the running bowline, get up there, switch to drt, get r' done, back to the srt and ride down on the 8. Here is the trick: tie my throwline to the bowline loop before I start my decent so once I am down I can pull the whole thing out of the tree. Only got stuck once and had to go back up:

Crotch selection, crotch selection, crotch selection!

Static kernmantle 1/2" and 120'

Some pretty fancy and complicated pics on this here thread. I would be hesitant to put a bight of rope through a pawl like that though. Metal against metal can create sharp edges that in a dynamic loading situation would slice right through rope. Same reason they advise against connecting rope directly to pulley becketts.

 

[treemandan]

About tying off to a small tree near a the large one being climbed:

If it's a real windy day don't be surprised if you get a little srt rope movement as the tree sways. I've only had it happen a few times and it's been minor but when climbing right up to the crotch it does give a climber something to think about. If a large gust were to hit could the climber be pulled up to the crotch? Through the crotch? An over vivid imagination? Most likely!

Oh that, yeah, well you get used to it. I go right up to the crotch the rope is draped through. Sometimes use the sway to put me above, of course the lanyard is working too.


Mostly its just drape the rope, tie it off at the bottom (RB) and head up. I know you know that ball hitch get use too. I will go out and work as I go up. Sometimes I only need a high tie in to get low stuff. As long as your mechanical device is backed up with a friction hitch what could go wrong? I don't know.

I have broken branches and dropped a few times, no big deal as the set up usually has other branches to catch you, its fun, you don't die... as long as you back up you device and use you lanyard like you should. Best not to take chances with this ****.

 

[treemandan]

I usually only srt for spikeless pruning on that dead damaged limb way up there. Big shot over a good limb, set the running bowline, get up there, switch to drt, get r' done, back to the srt and ride down on the 8. Here is the trick: tie my throwline to the bowline loop before I start my decent so once I am down I can pull the whole thing out of the tree. Only got stuck once and had to go back up:

Crotch selection, crotch selection, crotch selection!

Static kernmantle 1/2" and 120'

Some pretty fancy and complicated pics on this here thread. I would be hesitant to put a bight of rope through a pawl like that though. Metal against metal can create sharp edges that in a dynamic loading situation would slice right through rope. Same reason they advise against connecting rope directly to pulley becketts.

I think that was just to hold the rope from getting lost being tied like that, I thought so.
A lot of times I don't switch sysytems for the quick limb out of the tree.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I don't know Dan, looked like an anchor point for line going up and over a crotch in the tree. It would be easier to hitch it onto a Dingo or something....
hmmm......I seem to remember you taking some flack for that a while back....still got that pic?:greenchainsaw:

 

[Ghillie]

I don't know Dan, looked like an anchor point for line going up and over a crotch in the tree. It would be easier to hitch it onto a Dingo or something....
hmmm......I seem to remember you taking some flack for that a while back....still got that pic?:greenchainsaw:

You mean this one?

 

[Ghillie]

*clip*
Some pretty fancy and complicated pics on this here thread. I would be hesitant to put a bight of rope through a pawl like that though. Metal against metal can create sharp edges that in a dynamic loading situation would slice right through rope. Same reason they advise against connecting rope directly to pulley becketts.

Are you talking about the picture I posted running through the anchor plate?

Good question. I will have to see what petzl says.