Tired of ethanol issues! My Stihl 029 loves AV Gas.

[sb47]

I gotta skedaddle off to work so I’ll make this quick.
Octane has to do with flash point, once ignited there may be little deference in the amount of power produced after ignition.
Air fuel mixture is more important in how efficient it burns once it’s ignited.

Storage is important, plastic fuel containers are poor storage units for fuel. It is recommended that you store your fuel in steel cans that seal tight so as not to loose all the goodness of the fuel.

Also if I remember rite oxygenated fuel has ethanol in it, weather it pump fuel or race fuel.

Gotta run!

 

[MotorSeven]

I have been running av gas in all my small engine tools for about a year now.....saws, blowers, mowers, power washer, splitter etc. Great fuel and keeps for a good long time. I highly recommend it, smells good too.

Make that 3 years for me....110 race fuel.....zero problems.

 

[user 64030]

I sometimes run strait 110 with a good oil mix. I race mx so I have plenty of VP 110 oxygenated race fuel around. It really makes the chainsaw rip.

....Also if I remember rite oxygenated fuel has ethanol in it, weather it pump fuel or race fuel.

I was about to post this to advise you that oxygenated means ethanol... guess you know ;-)

____________________________

I can get 90 Octane Recreational fuel from a wholesaler that delivers to farms, country clubs etc that buy bulk fuel delivered. It is guaranteed E-free, and not that much more than regular fuel, and and prevents me from running the 100 LL AV Gas. :msp_sneaky:

dw

 

[Whitespider]

...people that say ethanol is causing a food shortage don't know what they're talking about. The ethanol process only uses about 2% of the nutritional value of a kernel of corn. Once done, it is sold off as distiller's grains and the cattle still get fed.

I wasn't gonna'... but I have to comment on this.
Distillers Grains do vary little to offset the effect of ethanol on food prices (and most everything else). First of all, ethanol production competes with everything else that uses corn (not just feed for cattle, thousands of other things), which increases the price of corn... thereby increasing the price of everything else. Secondly, Distillers Grains are really only suitable for feeding ruminants (cattle) at any appreciable quantity, typically mixed at only 10%-20%... the percentage is much less, or zero for non-ruminants such as hogs, poultry, and whatnot. Third, Distillers Grains are not cheap, the corn must first be hauled to the ethanol production facility, and then hauled again (as Distillers Grains) tho the feed producing facility... double transportation ain't cheap. So you see... Distillers Grains are like a drop-in-the-ocean when considering the overall effect of ethanol on prices.

Also if I remember rite oxygenated fuel has ethanol in it, weather it pump fuel or race fuel.

Not necessarily, several additives can be used. All of the “pump” gasoline in the United States is “oxygenated”… even non-ethanol gasoline. Here is just a partial list of chemicals that may be used to “oxygenate” gasoline…

• Ethanol (EtOH)
• n-butanol (BuOH)
• Methanol (MeOH)
• Isopropyl alcohol (IPA)
• Gasoline grade t-butanol (GTBA)
• Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) (Banned in some states for use in pump gas)
• Ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE)
• Tertiary amyl methyl ether (TAME)
• Tertiary hexyl methyl ether (THEME)
• Tertiary amyl ethyl ether (TAEE)
• Diisopropyl ether (DIPE)

 

[bert the turtle]

The LL describing avgas stands for "low lead". It is only low compared to the stuff they made way back in the day. It is still a fair amount of lead in it. Chainsaw exhaust comes out mighty close to where I breath and I'm not sure I have extra neurons to spare. Rather save my lead exposure for shooting.

I do love the smell of avgas, though, and I'd like to avoid the ethanol problems. Guess I'll have to throw a few jerrycans in the truck and take a road trip every so often, because I haven't found a local source of the ethanol free stuff.

 

[discounthunter]

Not so odd really.
By trucking it to your state and selling it there, it brings more money into this state... selling it here only recycles money already here.
It ain't about "green" or "renewable", never has been... it's all about the money.

too true,if it really was about renewable sugar cane and sugar beets 10 fold over corn,its actually one of the worst sources,per acre crop.

that being said my stuff like 91-93 oct. my old bolens like it old and stale,lol.

 

[smokee]

I run my 029 on a fairly regular schedule. I started having issues with poor performance and traced the problem to bad gas. Took a trip to my local airport and got a 5 gallon can of aviation fuel. A little pricey but I no longer need to add fuel treatment. Anybody else try av gas?

Hey dparkguy, I'm not sure where you're at but there's a gas station a mile from my house here in Lancaster that advertises no eth gas. My brother in law runs it in his prius hybrid and swears by it. I'm going to use his high-test for my husqvarna from now on. PM me if you're close and want to know. Hell, I can just post here for that matter... let me know.

 

[user 64030]

The LL describing avgas stands for "low lead"....

The current stuff is actually SLL Super LL and but it is still rather high. I found the TrueFuel smells like AV or Race gas (they smell the same).

Just wish I could get that smell to add to my saw gas


dw

 

[sb47]

Lets look at corn for a minuet.
First you need seed, so you have it shipped to you.
Next you need land to grow it on.
Next you need a tractor and everything it needs to plow the field, fuel, oil, tires, ect.
Then you need fertilizer, witch is made from petroleum.
Then you need irrigation.
Come harvest time you need tractors and trucks to haul it somewhere and store it, plus fuel to run the fleet.
Then it has to be possessed into ethanol.
Then that has to be shipped to a plant that can blend it with gas.

All these steps cost money and fuel. I can’t see how with all that’s involved in growing corn and what it takes to get into your tank saves anything!
I would bet it cost more in recourses to make ethanol then it does gas.

 

[Patrick62]

Fine booze...

--- with gasoline added :angrysoapbox:
I been runnin' 100LL for years. The only negative I have seen is that about every 6 months or so you gotta clean the plug.
I did do a little investigatin' a few years ago. there exists various racing fuels, and actually a 94 octane or so unleaded avgas that would be possibly better than the 100LL which is designed for low rpm engines (lycoming's don't rev to 13,000). Until I find a source better, I am stuck on avgas. I ain't gonna have a 55 gallon barrel shipped in of racing gas at north of 12 bucks a gallon :msp_scared::msp_scared:

 

[sb47]

The current stuff is actually SLL Super LL and but it is still rather high. I found the TrueFuel smells like AV or Race gas (they smell the same).

Just wish I could get that smell to add to my saw gas


dw

VP use to have an additive that smelled like grape, and one like strawberry.
I can’t find it on the site anymore.

 

[m37]

I have tried it but like a mix of 110 race with 89 non ethanol. 89 is all that I can find around here that's non ethanol.

 

[sb47]

I don’t normally run high octane fuel in my saw. I do run some in it every once in awhile.
The deference I can see is with race fuel it will rev faster and not bog as much if I bear down on the saw, meaning it has more power.
Normally I just run 87 octane everything but my race bike.
At $10 plus a gallon, running race fuel is not cost effective.

I have no issues running 87 in my saws regardless if it has ethanol or not.
I use my saws about 8-10 hours a week year round so they get used a lot.

 

[MotorSeven]

I have no issues running 87 in my saws regardless if it has ethanol or not.
I use my saws about 8-10 hours a week year round so they get used a lot.

You won't ever have ethanol problems if you run your saws that much....it's when they sit for a month or more which incubates then grows the cottage cheese in the carbs. The higher the ethanol content the quicker it coagulates.

 

[zogger]

Jealous of you guys that can get ethanol free. It's 10% in MA and in CT where ever you go. Sucks.

I think it goes by population density. I am outside the atlanta metro area, just far enough I can go one way a few miles and get ethanol free, go back towards atlanta a few miles and there all you can get is gas with ethanol. It's air quality measurements and the map the epa has (regular pump gas at a station I mean). So, a lot of rural areas can get non E, but closer to major urban areas, you are SOL unless you get avgas or find another source, the racing fuel or canned premix or perhaps at a marina or someplace that has "offroad" farm gas. I *bet* you can find ethanol free in your area if you dig harder. It won't be at a regular gas station, but you should be able to find it.

 

[Arbonaut]

I sometimes run strait 110 with a good oil mix. I race mx so I have plenty of VP 110 oxygenated race fuel around. It really makes the chainsaw rip.

Anybody remember, "Silkolene?"

 

[tooold]

Why do you need higher octane for pre-mix? Because, when you add oil, the octane rating goes down. In the old days, starting with 92 octane fuel, mix at 20:1, your octane would drop to about 72. Less oil, less drop. Plus, the modern oils don't affect it as much now. Good thing the comp ratios are not that high in 2 strokes.

 

[Whitespider]

• American-produced corn for biofuel has added more than $6.5 billion to the food import bills of developing countries
• cattle farmers are feeding cows candy instead of corn, corn goes for about $315 a ton, ice-cream sprinkles $160 a ton
• energy from crops has driven up food prices and hunger as well as spuring enormous corporate land grabs in poor countries
• history shows that rising food prices have been a significant contributor to global unrest, social upheaval, and even war
• a world shortage of pork and bacon next year is now unavoidable," according to an industry trade group
• the EPA requiring some gas stations to sell at least four gallons of gasoline at a time, the theory is the four-gallon minimum would dilute any residual E15 remaining in the hose enough to keep it from damaging small engines
• ethanol from corn actually increases the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere at a higher rate than gasoline, yet, the U.S. uses taxpayer money at a rate of $10 to $30 billion each year in farm subsidies
• the UN is now pleading with the U.S. to suspend its ethanol mandate — to prevent food price poverty
• the EPA has determined there is enough biofuels made from non-food products to meet the renewable fuel standard for 2012 (WHAT!?!)
• to make US produced ethanol competitive here at home, producers in this country get a 45-cent-per-gallon federal subsidy but a 54-cent-per-gallon tariff imposed on foreign imports (that means foreign producers can make it, and ship it here, for a dollar cheaper than we can produce it at home… still think you’re not getting screwed?)
• the power density of ethanol is so low that in 2011, to produce a quantity of motor fuel whose energy equivalent was just 6-tenths of one-percent of total global oil consumption, the American corn-ethanol sector had to convert a mind-boggling 4.9 billion bushels of grain into ethanol… more corn than the combined outputs of the European Union, Mexico, Argentina, and India
• under US law, 40% of the corn harvest must be used to make biofuel… even after the crop as been dramatically reduced by drought
• according to a January 23, 2012 Center for Scientific Review report, supposed benefits of the Renewable Fuels Mandate have not appeared… our dependence on foreign oil hasn't been reduced at all, and there is no evidence that the ethanol has lowered energy prices

Should I go on? I have more… much more, such as…

Federal regulations demands oil refiners use millions of gallons cellulosic ethanol (made from wood chips, corn cobs, switch grass and whatnot), but it doesn’t exist in those quantities because the technology for mass-producing cellulosic ethanol hasn't been perfected. This hasn’t stopped the Environmental Protection Agency from imposing hefty yearly fines on oil refiners for not using it… which of course, the cost of which is just pass on down to you!

 

[brenndatomu]

• American-produced corn for biofuel has added more than $6.5 billion to the food import bills of developing countries
• cattle farmers are feeding cows candy instead of corn, corn goes for about $315 a ton, ice-cream sprinkles $160 a ton
• energy from crops has driven up food prices and hunger as well as spuring enormous corporate land grabs in poor countries
• history shows that rising food prices have been a significant contributor to global unrest, social upheaval, and even war
• a world shortage of pork and bacon next year is now unavoidable," according to an industry trade group
• the EPA requiring some gas stations to sell at least four gallons of gasoline at a time, the theory is the four-gallon minimum would dilute any residual E15 remaining in the hose enough to keep it from damaging small engines
• ethanol from corn actually increases the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere at a higher rate than gasoline, yet, the U.S. uses taxpayer money at a rate of $10 to $30 billion each year in farm subsidies
• the UN is now pleading with the U.S. to suspend its ethanol mandate — to prevent food price poverty
• the EPA has determined there is enough biofuels made from non-food products to meet the renewable fuel standard for 2012 (WHAT!?!)
• to make US produced ethanol competitive here at home, producers in this country get a 45-cent-per-gallon federal subsidy but a 54-cent-per-gallon tariff imposed on foreign imports (that means foreign producers can make it, and ship it here, for a dollar cheaper than we can produce it at home… still think you’re not getting screwed?)
• the power density of ethanol is so low that in 2011, to produce a quantity of motor fuel whose energy equivalent was just 6-tenths of one-percent of total global oil consumption, the American corn-ethanol sector had to convert a mind-boggling 4.9 billion bushels of grain into ethanol… more corn than the combined outputs of the European Union, Mexico, Argentina, and India
• under US law, 40% of the corn harvest must be used to make biofuel… even after the crop as been dramatically reduced by drought
• according to a January 23, 2012 Center for Scientific Review report, supposed benefits of the Renewable Fuels Mandate have not appeared… our dependence on foreign oil hasn't been reduced at all, and there is no evidence that the ethanol has lowered energy prices

Should I go on? I have more… much more, such as…

Federal regulations demands oil refiners use millions of gallons cellulosic ethanol (made from wood chips, corn cobs, switch grass and whatnot), but it doesn’t exist in those quantities because the technology for mass-producing cellulosic ethanol hasn't been perfected. This hasn’t stopped the Environmental Protection Agency from imposing hefty yearly fines on oil refiners for not using it… which of course, the cost of which is just pass on down to you!

HELLO?!! THANK YOU!! W.S. for president!

 

[tooold]

Oh great.....far right politics in a chainsaw forum.....