To Hone or not To Hone

[bama]

I have found by reading the posts on honing that there are definitely opinions on both sides of the issue. I have decided to give the muriatic acid scrub a try because it looks like the cylinders(old Jonsereds) that I have will clean up if I can get the aluminum out.

Both of the arguments seem convincing about cleaning out the aluminum and then either honing or not. I just want to see if it works for me.

I plan to go the scotchbrite route and then put the saw together with a new piston/ring. If this doesn't seem to do the trick(not enough compression/power), can I try the hone next? Basically, can I try it the first way and if I don't like it, try it the other way?

 

[sedanman]

My $.02? Hone it, lightly.

 

[shalx]

Hone it, muratic acid sticks literally. Cross hatching is good for ring seating.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yes, as the other say, hone lightly...

Lot's of other threads discussing ball or other hones - I use a ball hone.

 

[bama]

OK, so it looks like I should hone it. If I remember right, it should be 10% undersize, right? I was figuring a ball hone. I was hoping to get away without since I would have to buy the hone. I guess I will have to start hone shopping. Any suggestions on a cheap, yet usable ball hone? I don't plan on doing this for a living, although it sure is a lot of fun.

 

[Lakeside53]

The ball hone should be about 10% oversize. Check you local autoparts store -they are $15-25

 

[Wood Butcher]

If you are just doing 1 cylinder and don't forsee doing this much in the future, careful application of 120-180 grit sandpaper by hand can give acceptable results. Remember to work for that cross hatch pattern. The best way nowadays to do it would be by sticking a rectangle of self-adhesive paper onto 2 or 3 fingers. WD40, mineral spirits, or most any other petroleum spray is good to lubricate and wash down the sides so you can keep track of your progress.

WB

 

[Freakingstang]

I hone mine too. Just be sure to use a good lubricant while doing it. I use WD-40. Lightly is the key word. I pressed a little too hard on the first attemp and burned through the Nikasel coating.

Also be sure to clean the jug throughly before reassembly. You don't want any of those metal flakes staying in the transfers and getting into the bottom end....Hint, bearings don't like metal!


Steve

 

[bama]

The ball hone should be about 10% oversize. Check you local autoparts store -they are $15-25

That is what I meant to type(10% OVERsize). Brain thought one thing, hands did another. For that price, I can afford to buy one.


Woodbutcher, I don't plan on doing hundreds, but if this works out, I am sure I will continue every so often, so I will probably buy a hone.

I hone mine too. Just be sure to use a good lubricant while doing it. I use WD-40. Lightly is the key word. I pressed a little too hard on the first attemp and burned through the Nikasel coating.

Also be sure to clean the jug throughly before reassembly. You don't want any of those metal flakes staying in the transfers and getting into the bottom end....Hint, bearings don't like metal!

I happen to have another JUNK cylinder that I just might use for practice. At least it won't matter if I burn through the Nikasel!

Thanks for the advice, guys!

 

[Lakeside53]

I hone mine too. Just be sure to use a good lubricant while doing it. I use WD-40. Lightly is the key word. I pressed a little too hard on the first attemp and burned through the Nikasel coating.

Also be sure to clean the jug throughly before reassembly. You don't want any of those metal flakes staying in the transfers and getting into the bottom end....Hint, bearings don't like metal!


Steve

You must have had a worn out cylinder... I find it almost impossible to wear down the Nikersil with a standard ball hone. I don't remember how long now but I tried to destroy an 026 cylinder with 20-30 minutes of honing with a lubricated ball hone - not...

With ball hone, broken in, I find it takes about 5-20 seconds to nicely and lightly hone a typical cylinder at 500-1000rpm, then I finish it off for a few seconds at 2000 rpm.

Broken in - I like my ball hone after it's been used a couple of times. They are somewhat aggressive when new, but with a little wear work great.

 

[Justsaws]

I have had great success with a 3 stone brake cylinder hone. I put the hone in a cordless screw gun with a clutch-able chuck. Go real slow wash walls kerosene while honing, usually takes less than a couple of minutes. One more task were setup/cleanup takes much longer than actual process. On cylinders with open transfer ports I make a sleeve out of 1000 grit silicon carbide paper put it in cylinder and spin it with the hone. Works great. Rinse the cylinder with mineral spirits and then with straight gasoline. Test for residue with a white cloth. Remember to check all the internal port edges and to test it for hang ups with piston and rings. I have saved a lot of money on parts by honing and polishing. Good to save money, allows for more chainsaws to be purchased. Good luck.

 

[Lakeside53]

Brake hones: yes, they work in closed ported cylinders ( only) , but you need to get the right vertical rhythm to get a decent cross hatch... ball hones take care of that for you...

 

[Freakingstang]

You must have had a worn out cyliner... I find it almost impossible to wear down the Nikersil with a standard ball hone. I don't remember how long now but I tried to destroy an 026 cylinder with 20-30 minutes of honing with a lubricated ball hone - not...

With ball hone, broken in, I find it takes about 5-20 seconds to nicely and lightly hone a typical cylinder at 500-1000rpm, then I finish it off for a few seconds at 2000 rpm.

Broken in - I like my ball hone after it's been used a couple of times. They are somewhat aggressive when new, but with a little wear work great.

It was a brand new ball hone and was done a a fairly high speed (2000ish rpm). The cylinder was shot, but I tried, and in about 30 seconds, it was destroyed...

I agree, a broken in ball hone is the way to go. I learned to go slow while doing most of the honing and then like you said finish it off at a high speed for a few seconds.

 

[16gauge]

jug clean up

It was a brand new ball hone and was done a a fairly high speed (2000ish rpm). The cylinder was shot, but I tried, and in about 30 seconds, it was destroyed...

I agree, a broken in ball hone is the way to go. I learned to go slow while doing most of the honing and then like you said finish it off at a high speed for a few seconds.

Well some things are better done by hand...I think. Not that I don't have a drill and hone but i removed lots of aluminum from the jug on my Husky 55 two weeks ago. it was with 80 grit sandpaper used until it wore down to alot finer grit. It did score the cylinder and such but I just used one or two fingers as I went and it cross hached naturally. Not to downgrade the ball hones, they work, but 30 minutes of careful hand work followed by meticulous cleaning can achieve good results. BTW this 55 works great.

 

[sedanman]

In a shop environment the 30 minutes of hand work would push the bill high enough to justify a new cylinder. The hone does the job in a few minutes not a 1/2 hour. At home on your own stuff take the time. I can't afford it at the shop.

 

[16gauge]

In a shop environment the 30 minutes of hand work would push the bill high enough to justify a new cylinder. The hone does the job in a few minutes not a 1/2 hour. At home on your own stuff take the time. I can't afford it at the shop.

Exactly, thats why I do my own work whenever possible.

 

[Justsaws]

Brake hones: yes, they work in closed ported cylinders ( only) , but you need to get the right vertical rhythm to get a decent cross hatch... ball hones take care of that for you...

It is nice to know that brake hone and sleeve did not work in the open port Poulan 3600 that I was using today. That would also explain the 3400's and all those smooth running xl-12's. If you want to do it with a ball hone great, if you want to do it by hand great. Just offering a one size fits almost all option that has work great from 32cc up to 95cc.
Now for a serious moment. What degree cross-hatching comes on a plated chainsaw cylinder? Never seen two that match. Most seem almost horizontal. Do Husky or Stihl have a spec.? I do not know. I would like to. I have asked a couple of dealer mechanics and they always tell me to buy a new top half, which I never have. I am not interested in opinions on this,just actual specs.. Do not mean to sound rude but I am new to typing what I am thinking and I seem to think like an :censored: .

 

[Justsaws]

In a shop environment the 30 minutes of hand work would push the bill high enough to justify a new cylinder. The hone does the job in a few minutes not a 1/2 hour. At home on your own stuff take the time. I can't afford it at the shop.

Amen.

 

[Lakeside53]

It is nice to know that brake hone and sleeve did not work in the open port Poulan 3600 that I was using today. That would also explain the 3400's and all those smooth running xl-12's. If you want to do it with a ball hone great, if you want to do it by hand great. Just offering a one size fits almost all option that has work great from 32cc up to 95cc.
Now for a serious moment. What degree cross-hatching comes on a plated chainsaw cylinder? Never seen two that match. Most seem almost horizontal. Do Husky or Stihl have a spec.? I do not know. I would like to. I have asked a couple of dealer mechanics and they always tell me to buy a new top half, which I never have. I am not interested in opinions on this,just actual specs.. Do not mean to sound rude but I am new to typing what I am thinking and I seem to think like an :censored: .

Do not confuse "plated" with Nikersil. Yes, they are both plated, but Nikersil is honed with a diamond hone after plating.. Chrome Plating is NOT. Never hone a chrome cyinder, but that's not what we are taking about here... A new Stihl nikersil cylinder has a very fine crosshatch pattern... Stihl and Husky do not publish their specs. The best info on ball hones and cylinder wall plateau values is probably found on http://www.brushresearch.com/Index.cfm/FuseAction/home.FlexHoneTools.htm

Browse the entire site... some interesting reading..

As for open ports - are we taking the same thing? A vertical open transfer port just traps the cheapy 3 springs design brake hone as soon as it goes in... and if you're just keeping it in the top of the cylinder, then you're not honing evenly.. trust me, I've done it all way, some bad ways, some good... a brake hone, for example, on an 029 or Br420 is NOT a good idea... however, works o.k on the likes of 026, 036, 044 etc. Maybe your Xl 12 is different enough so it doesn't trap the hone stone? I've also honed open port cylinders on a zillion $$ machine made expressly for that purpose... and they come out real nice...

 

[Justsaws]

Lakeside53, I think we are talking about the same "ports" I am just not not explaining myself well. I agree with what you are saying. The difference is I have a way to use a 3 stone hone(abrasive sleeve) in an open port. It works very well and fits my budget. I am not honing just the top of the bore.:hmm3grin2orange:
As to the "plate" on cylinders. That was the info I had gotten before, except for the web site. I will take a look. Thank you. I have access to diamond abrasives in many forms and have done some experiments. The different "plates" that have been used seem to respond well to light honing. Some seem to do much better than others. I was just hoping there was a spec., but I will continue to mimic the existing marks. Wish I had better eyes, need a mag glass and lots of light. Time for food and sleep. Just finished working on a Homelite XL-400 and a EZ. Both running great and sounding Homelite. Thanks for answering my question.