To OWB or Not To OWB

[morningwood]

Wife and I have a 1500 sq ft ( possibly 2000 in a few years ) modular ranch in Central Ohio with a crawl space. The house is insulated very well and we currently heat with propane and wood. We live in a rural area ( closest neighbor is 1k feet away ) and have 25 acres of woods.

We burn wood when the temps are below 40F. The house gets too hot with the wood burner when the outside temps are above 40F. Current wood burner is a EPA Certified Vermont Castings Large Dutchwest stove which will generally keeps the main area of the house around 74F without breaking a sweat. Since it is a a ranch we have a issue pushing warm air to two of the rooms even with in the wall fans and ceiling fans running 24 x 7.

We currently burn around 2 - 3 cords of hardwood per year and around 100 gallons of propane a year. Hot water is electric.

I have been looking at OWB's for the past few months to heat our house, 800 sq ft woodshop, along with DHW. I am currently leaning towards a CB 5036. I like the Woodmaster but I have gotten four prices from three different dealers which does not give me the warm and fuzzy. :monkey:

Plus / minus list to follow:

+

• All of the mess is outside
• Less splitting
• Hot shower in the morning
• Sleep through the night during the winter {BIG}
• Come home to a warm house
• Cat's will not have to come into the house when it is really cold out
• Only load twice a day
• Might be able to use woodshop during the winter
• Save 750$ a year between insurance, DHW, and propane usage.

-

• Cut alot more wood by myself {BIG}
• Cost to buy and install system.

The plus list definitely out weighs the minus list but for some reason I am still not one hundred percent sold on the idea. I have yet to meet a person who has one who does not like it. I am however sure by spring they are tired of feeding the monster as we all are.

The wife and both agreed if we buy one this is the year we are going to get one due to the prices finally coming down. If the economy turns around I am sure they will be very expensive again next year.

I realize I will be heating about fifty percent more square feet by heating the woodshop but cutting 6 - 8 cord of wood a year by myself sounds like alot of work. My other thought is to buy about 3 cord of wood a year. I can get 3 cord split and dropped off for around 275$.

So my question is, am I nuts thinking a OWB is a good idea when I already have a stove that is paid off and it does not burn alot of wood ? I have calculated my payoff at around five years if we just burned propane one-hundred percent of the time. Payoff in the current situation is around ten years.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[November Wolf]

I think I would just keep what you have. If you was using 100% propane now I would get the Central Boiler for a payoff in 5 years, but since you are using wood already the payoff in 10 years is too long in my opinion.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Yes, feeding the boiler is a lot of work, espeacially cutting/splitting/stacking by yourself...I would be tempted to keep the existing setup too.

 

[Blazin]

Tough call.
Maybe check around to see if there are any CB dealers with trade in's. The dealer I bought mine from had a year old 5036 he was selling for $3000 with 2 pumps and 60ft of logster pipe, A deal like that would cut the payback way down making it worth while.
The big selling point is that the whole house will be the same temp, electric hot water heater shut off, and some good ole exercise cuttin 6-8 cord of wood for the year.

 

[sdt7618]

instead of an OWb how about a large stove? might be able to heat your home with wood and kill the propane that way.

I am kinda like you at the moment, burn with a small 7kw stove and oil central heating. The stove saves us about 3-4 months during fall and spring when we can leave the heating off and use the stove on it's own. but the during the mid winter both run and costs us about £500 in oil.

Have toyed with the idea of a wood boiler but the set-up cost and basically the time taken to feed it would out way the benefit.

 

[Scootermsp]

5036 installed Summer 2008

I have to say my 5036 has far surpassed my expectations. I heat 4800 sq/ft and DHW (lots of it, 3 women). I also like that there is no chance of CO poisoning. With my size house I used 2 cords in Dec and close to 3 in January. Now with the temps in the 30s during the day it seems to use very little. I just got an 18 hr burn time without packing it (overnight temp 22F). My cost for unit and install (did about 75% myself) was around $8500. From Sept 07 to Sept 08 I paid nearly $6K for Fuel oil. At current prices add in my splitter and saws---2 YEAR PAYBACK
One "mistake" I made was splitting wood that didn't need it. I split it more so it would season than anything else. I am seeing now that the Oak I piled up last July is giving me more heat than it did in November. As soon as the snow is gone it's showtime. I've got about 7 cords left. My goal is to start feeding the OWB out of my "crap" pile and leave the stacked Oak for 09-10 season.
If you are in it for the long haul, I say go for it....but you better like cutting wood. Another route if you buy wood is to try to get it cheaper, unsplit.

 

[AIM]

We currently burn around 2 - 3 cords of hardwood per year and around 100 gallons of propane a year. Hot water is electric.

Scott

Your current setup sounds pretty good. 100 gal of propane isn't squat.

There are definate advantages to an OWB though.
I for one LOVE the fact that the mess is completely outside. No bark, no bugs, no smoke, less handling.
I can keep my garage above freezing all winter now. (I used to have to haul my pressure washer and many gallons of various liquids to my basement for the winter and then return the to the garage in the spring.)
The list goes on and on about what I like.

Disadvantages to them are numerous as well though.
Wood consumption will go up ALOT.
Standing outside in 0 degree temps loading it sucks.
A biggy that many people don't consider is that you are COMMITTED to this thing. You can't just say to hell with it while your laying in bed with the flu for a week or you go to Florida on vacation. It's gotta keep burnin.
And the list goes on.

 

[LadyToysDream]

Your current set up sounds good.

In our case, we refused to be held hostage to a propane company.
Who really knows, how high the prices can go in the future. We use 500 gallons a year if not using wood. That was for heat and cookstove.
Our OWB payback is going to be slow.
We just bough a tri axle load of logs. Should be enough for next winter, with what we will have left over from this winter.

More pluses than negatives here.

You have 25 acres of woods.....wow.....my hubby would be in hog heaven.
We only have 2 acres and it keeps the hubby busy in the summer, with all his mowing, etc.

 

[Hawken]

It's true that you will go through more wood, but cutting it (at least for my situation) is a lot easier. When I had the wood stoves in the house we had to load it on a truck or wagon, carry it into the house, stack it, clean up the mess. Now we just load it on a hay wagon, cover it with a tarp and feed the stove right off the wagon. We cut once a week for about 4 or 5 hours to supply 4 families with wood. We also have wagons loaded and backed into barns ready to be used if we can't get out to cut. All of the Ash and Elm trees around here are dying, we could cut on the fence rows for two years and never make a dent, let alone get all the stuff in the wood lots.

I love our cb5036. We never run out of hot water, my kids are healthier because there is no dust, or mold from the wood in the house. Get a OWB, do not wait, get one now!! You will not regret it.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

With an OWB you may burn more wood mass but with less handling of the wood, bigger pieces etc. I think you will put in less effort overall. But on the other hand if I didn't actually like cutting wood I wouldn't burn it.

 

[avalancher]

I struggled with the same issue myself, but ended up just staying with the woodstove. Here in TN we dont get the low temps like you all do up north, but the idea of heating water was a big plus.
After considering the cost, and the fact that we dont plan on staying here much longer than 5 years, we decided to stay with the woodstove.I heat 1700 sqft of home, and the shop is heated with wood as well. I figured that it would take a little more than 10 years to pay off the OWB at our current rate. We havent refilled the propane tank since we moved here 5 years ago.

 

[Marc]

I'd have a hard time using a wood burning appliance that sends so much availalbe heat up in smoke. Of course, it depends on how and what you burn in one, but if I were you and decided to us a water heating wood burner, I'd find the most efficient device on the market. I'd be very tempted, in your situation, to consider (depending on the proximity) to put a gasifying wood boiler in that shop (something from Eko, Tarm, Woodgun, Econoburn, etc.)

 

[Zodiac45]

I'd have a hard time using a wood burning appliance that sends so much availalbe heat up in smoke. Of course, it depends on how and what you burn in one, but if I were you and decided to us a water heating wood burner, I'd find the most efficient device on the market. I'd be very tempted, in your situation, to consider (depending on the proximity) to put a gasifying wood boiler in that shop (something from Eko, Tarm, Woodgun, Econoburn, etc.)

The new CB E-classic seems too be adressing some of the problems with the older designs. For me, it's much easier (cheaper) too stay with stoves due too the current oil/steam backup system. That and I use half of the wood I'd use in a OWB. Gasifiers are great if you can afford them and have the space.

 

[morningwood]

Want to say thanks for everyone's comments so far.

I know that financially a OWB makes no sense in my situation but I however like the idea because the whole mess ( along with smoke ) is outside. We have had our stove back draft into the house a few times and woken up to a house smelling like smoke. We have two carbon monoxide detectors in the house which luckily did not go off.

My wife is also tired of me waking up in the middle of the night to feed the stove. She thinks I am nuts, and deserves to get a full nights sleep.

I think the time it will take to cut extra firewood will be minimal. To get a stick of wood into my house I touch it roughly five to six times because everything has to be split, stacked, moved then re-stacked in the garage. With a OWB I will touch it twice. Once to cut, once to stack.

I have looked at gasification units to put into my barn but I think the burn times are still 4 -6 hours unless I get a Garn. If I wanted to spend that much money I would probably go geothermal. I am not sure if they will heat multiple buildings also. I was going to call Cozy Heat in the near future and get some more specifics.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Scootermsp]

Morningwood

If you want to heat 1500 sqft (plus a shop in the future) please take a serious look at the CB 5036. This unit would be a perfect fit for you. It also has 2 inlets and outlets so it can heat 2 buildings independently. Also I think the mess outside is a MAJOR plus. This unit does well with pine and green wood as well, something you cannot do with a woodstove.:chainsawguy:

 

[twofer]

I keep pimping this around the forums but if you're thinking about going with an OWB you owe it to yourself to look into a gasification boiler with thermal storage. With a gasification boiler you can enjoy pretty much all the benefits of an OWB but you end up burning less wood to produce the same amount of heat. With a gasification boiler and thermal storage you can:

• Hook them up to your DHW so you can have a hot shower in the morning
• Split less wood because they use less wood
• Integrate thermal storage to extend times between fires so that you can sleep through the night
• Come home to a warm house
• Only load twice a day during the coldest part of the winter (with the warmer weather I'm only making one small fire a day)
• Save money on DHW and propane usage

To be honest, I'm not really sure where you were going with the cat thing so I won't address that.

You can accomplish all of this but burn less wood and have a pressurized system that requires less water maintenance. That's just my two bits anyways.

 

[David Wayne]

Want to say thanks for everyone's comments so far.

I know that financially a OWB makes no sense in my situation but I however like the idea because the whole mess ( along with smoke ) is outside. We have had our stove back draft into the house a few times and woken up to a house smelling like smoke. We have two carbon monoxide detectors in the house which luckily did not go off.

My wife is also tired of me waking up in the middle of the night to feed the stove. She thinks I am nuts, and deserves to get a full nights sleep.

I think the time it will take to cut extra firewood will be minimal. To get a stick of wood into my house I touch it roughly five to six times because everything has to be split, stacked, moved then re-stacked in the garage. With a OWB I will touch it twice. Once to cut, once to stack.

I have looked at gasification units to put into my barn but I think the burn times are still 4 -6 hours unless I get a Garn. If I wanted to spend that much money I would probably go geothermal. I am not sure if they will heat multiple buildings also. I was going to call Cozy Heat in the near future and get some more specifics.

Thanks,

Scott

I think you have answerd your own question, there is more to it than just the
$$ payback

 

[trialanderror]

i threw my hands up with my old system i had going...
i have 80 acres, 3 houses, each between 1700 and 2000 sq ft.

3 cookstoves and 3 furnaces.
the one shop is built on the same house, and i'd spend all day poking at the furnance to get it rippin' and roaring, then still end up with coat and coveralls and slip on frozen water on the floor (wtf?!)

i highly modified an old steel king boiler rated for 485,000BTU/hr ( added water jacket to all sides and then insulated). It was already setup for forced draft. A community member sponsored me the temp controller/relay. Each zone has a 300gal tank in the garage. i went over kill and put 200k btu HX's in each house and the shop, so i can easily pull 100k with only 130F water. it goes with the classic quote: rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it. Honestly too, if i pump 195F water to the HX's the blowers run a fraction of the time...

now it's only a few wheelbarrows of wood a day, instead of 3 loads in all 6 stoves each day...and i can acutally work in the shop in a teeshirt!!


just my input

 

[david78]

I heated with a woodstove for 25 years before going with an OWB this winter. I burn more wood but I like it a lot, for all the reasons others have stated. The biggest advantages to me are even heat throughout the house and being able to heat my garage. I like my Shaver, but you might check out the Timberwolf thread on this site. I might have bought one of them if I had known about them first.

 

[BryanSchamber]

I just purchased a Heatmor 200 this last fall. No complaints with the unit. In my opinion it is very efficient. Didn't hook up water at this time but plan to in future. Picked my unit up from dealer in Ohio. I liked the simplicity of the unit. I'm sure cb makes a good product, but wasn't real fond of all the electronics on it. I'm definately done with propane. Good luck in your decision.