To OWB or Not To OWB

[1953greg]

how bout an owb in the basement?? good or bad idea?

 

[November Wolf]

how bout an owb in the basement?? good or bad idea?

Bad Idea. You will get lots of smoke in your basement.

 

[John D]

how bout an owb in the basement?? good or bad idea?

That would be an add on furnace ,not an OWB,at least I think.If your main boiler is there,Id set it next to it,and loop the return water thru the add on before it goes back to the main boiler. If thats an option with respect to getting wood down there,Im sure it would be a lot more efficient than an OWB.Also any heat you lose off it would rise,and heat the main living space,not the outside air.An outdoor wood boiler is for isnt rated to go indoors.The most youd want is to build a shed around one in your yard.I'd never want mine inside,way to messy.

 

[morningwood]

I keep pimping this around the forums but if you're thinking about going with an OWB you owe it to yourself to look into a gasification boiler with thermal storage. With a gasification boiler you can enjoy pretty much all the benefits of an OWB but you end up burning less wood to produce the same amount of heat. With a gasification boiler and thermal storage you can:

• Hook them up to your DHW so you can have a hot shower in the morning
• Split less wood because they use less wood
• Integrate thermal storage to extend times between fires so that you can sleep through the night
• Come home to a warm house
• Only load twice a day during the coldest part of the winter (with the warmer weather I'm only making one small fire a day)
• Save money on DHW and propane usage

You can accomplish all of this but burn less wood and have a pressurized system that requires less water maintenance. That's just my two bits anyways.

Twofer,

Am a frequent lurker on ********** so I know what you are saying with gasification and thermal storage.

I am all for a gasification boiler but from what I have read on ********** most guys are only getting 4 - 6 hour burn times. That is pretty similar to what I am getting now. We also do not have a basement under our house, so I am not sure were the thermal storage would go ?

The wife says if we get something "new" I will not be waking up in the middle of the night to feed it.

To be honest, I'm not really sure where you were going with the cat thing so I won't address that.

Wife and I kicked the cats out of the house ( best move we ever made ) because they ruined about 3k worth of carpet. The cats are living in the barn now. The problem is that if it gets to cold ( <15F ) out we bring them into the house. We have a electric blanket for them etc but my wife feels guilty about them being outside when it is that cold. I tell her that is why they have fur. If I can keep my woodshop at around 40F then the cats never have to come inside. Keeps her happy and keeps them warm.

Scott

 

[trialanderror]

Twofer,



Wife and I kicked the cats out of the house ( best move we ever made ) because they ruined about 3k worth of carpet. The cats are living in the barn now. The problem is that if it gets to cold ( <15F ) out we bring them into the house. We have a electric blanket for them etc but my wife feels guilty about them being outside when it is that cold. I tell her that is why they have fur. If I can keep my woodshop at around 40F then the cats never have to come inside. Keeps her happy and keeps them warm.

Scott

cats have survived outside LONG before man started roaming around....leave them outside. a small coup/hut and some hay is all they need.

 

[Blazin]

OWB means outside just to clarify that, Cellar is off limits to an OWB.

Cats...Well get Mainecoons, We have 2 in the house that pester to go out to do the business and spend most of their time out there no matter what the conditions are. Hell... one even rides in the truck with me when I plow, now I just need to teach the little bastids to load the OWB!

 

[twofer]

Twofer,

Am a frequent lurker on ********** so I know what you are saying with gasification and thermal storage.

I am all for a gasification boiler but from what I have read on ********** most guys are only getting 4 - 6 hour burn times. That is pretty similar to what I am getting now. We also do not have a basement under our house, so I am not sure were the thermal storage would go ?

The wife says if we get something "new" I will not be waking up in the middle of the night to feed it.

You can't think of it in terms of "burn time" but rather how much heat is produced and then stored. When I start a fire my goal is to have it burn as hot and fast as possible in order to get the best efficiency out of my wood and thus the most heat. I also base the size of my fire on the temperature of my thermal storage tank. The goal here is to have a fire just big enough to heat up the storage tank up to 180°. Right about now as I write this the fire I built this morning @ 7am is probably about to go out (it's about 10:40am now). From here until I get home @ 5pm my home will be getting its heat from the thermal storage tank, so there's 10 hours between fires. Truthfully I probably won't start a fire until 7pm or so because the tank will still have enough heat in it.

If you wanted you could size your system with enough thermal storage so you'd only have to start a fire once a day even on the coldest days.

See you can sleep through the night with a gasifier..........that doesn't sound right.

Wife and I kicked the cats out of the house ( best move we ever made ) because they ruined about 3k worth of carpet. The cats are living in the barn now. The problem is that if it gets to cold ( <15F ) out we bring them into the house. We have a electric blanket for them etc but my wife feels guilty about them being outside when it is that cold. I tell her that is why they have fur. If I can keep my woodshop at around 40F then the cats never have to come inside. Keeps her happy and keeps them warm.

Scott

OH man I can relate. Our cats have been clawing the hell out of the door seal when we throw them out and it doesn't matter how many times I "reprimand" them they still keep doing it. I'd look like the weirdest guy on the road but I'm seriously thinking about building a "cat pen".

 

[trshmn]

You can't think of it in terms of "burn time" but rather how much heat is produced and then stored. When I start a fire my goal is to have it burn as hot and fast as possible in order to get the best efficiency out of my wood and thus the most heat. I also base the size of my fire on the temperature of my thermal storage tank. The goal here is to have a fire just big enough to heat up the storage tank up to 180°. Right about now as I write this the fire I built this morning @ 7am is probably about to go out (it's about 10:40am now). From here until I get home @ 5pm my home will be getting its heat from the thermal storage tank, so there's 10 hours between fires. Truthfully I probably won't start a fire until 7pm or so because the tank will still have enough heat in it.

If you wanted you could size your system with enough thermal storage so you'd only have to start a fire once a day even on the coldest days.

See you can sleep through the night with a gasifier..........that doesn't sound right.



OH man I can relate. Our cats have been clawing the hell out of the door seal when we throw them out and it doesn't matter how many times I "reprimand" them they still keep doing it. I'd look like the weirdest guy on the road but I'm seriously thinking about building a "cat pen".

So, do you have to start a new fire every day? or is there enough there for it to take off on it's own?

 

[Jeske 962]

OWB with no regrets

We have a Hydrfire HS48, which is the cheaper line of Central boiler. The unit is the dual fire model which have the option of installing a gas or oil fired extra burner in the OWB. This would answer the problem of being gone or not being able to fire for some health reason. We at the present time do not have the extra burner installed.

We heat our ranch style house, both basement and upper level. In floor in the basement and Base board up stairs. We heat our extra garage, 40x50 and keep it near 60 all winter long, and our DHW. We use about 25 to 30 cords a year, with most of that wood being what you would classify as junk wood. The temps here can get as cold as 40 below with 20 below for overnight temps often,DEC JAN FEB. In those type of conditions we try to burn a little better wood at night and often fire at 8 and refire in the morning at 5.

We have burned our unit in the summer to heat the hot water with minimal wood usage and a savings of about 1/2 our electric usage. Electric hot water heater.

We have zero regrets with the outside burner.

One thing is I actually enjoy making wood so that is a plus for me.

Check with your dealer as I believe the Hydro fire line may have been dropped from Central boiler but a dealer to dealer search may locate one. They are around 1500 dollars cheaper than the Central boiler regular line.

Joe

HydroFire HS48
MS361
MS290
034 super
031 AV 2X
:greenchainsaw:

 

[savageactor7]

Many years ago we decided against a boiler only because the power goes out a lot here. Yeah you can hook up a genset but when the more we thought about it we decided to upgrade out parlor stove.

You could just make a list of of each heating plants plus's and minus's then decide.

 

[morningwood]

So, do you have to start a new fire every day? or is there enough there for it to take off on it's own?

Yes, you have to start a fire once or twice a day with a gasification type boiler. Bascially the idea is to burn it hot and short ( most efficient ) and have the water storage act as your "heat sink". When your furnace calls for heat then you pull the heat from the huge amount of hot water that is sitting at 180F. Some of these gasification units can have 3k gallons of water. :jawdrop:

Here is a good video of a Garn unit in action. Great units but they break the pocket book pretty easy.

Scott

 

[Jeske 962]

Yes, you have to start a fire once or twice a day with a gasification type boiler. Bascially the idea is to burn it hot and short ( most efficient ) and have the water storage act as your "heat sink". When your furnace calls for heat then you pull the heat from the huge amount of hot water that is sitting at 180F. Some of these gasification units can have 3k gallons of water. :jawdrop:

Here is a good video of a Garn unit in action. Great units but they break the pocket book pretty easy.

Scott

My boss just put a Garn in at his house,his is the 1500 gallon model. All of us at work burn wood in some way, OWB or inside furnace. The reason he installed this type of furnace is because there is a city ordance with the regulations on OWB furnaces, the garn does not classify as a OWB. He has around 23,000 invested in the total setup. He built a seperate building to enclose it as this is necessary and you have to insulate also. His wood consumption appears to be no better than the rest of us and he has to start the fire everytime he fires up, there is a timer you have to set for the amount of burn time you estimate. After he has talked to the rest of us at work there is not one of us that would install the garn. His ultimate reason for the install was the regulations in the city with control of the OWB furnaces.

Joe

 

[John D]

My boss just put a Garn in at his house,his is the 1500 gallon model. All of us at work burn wood in some way, OWB or inside furnace. The reason he installed this type of furnace is because there is a city ordance with the regulations on OWB furnaces, the garn does not classify as a OWB. He has around 23,000 invested in the total setup. He built a seperate building to enclose it as this is necessary and you have to insulate also. His wood consumption appears to be no better than the rest of us and he has to start the fire everytime he fires up, there is a timer you have to set for the amount of burn time you estimate. After he has talked to the rest of us at work there is not one of us that would install the garn. His ultimate reason for the install was the regulations in the city with control of the OWB furnaces.

Joe

Funny you mentioned no wood savings. I watched the video posted,and the wheelbarrow full of wood,and laughed at it. I burn 1/2 that much a day in my shaver,even on cold days and i dont need to cut it up small or anywhere near that.I do like how clean it burns,but the whole setup is cost prohibitive to the point that not many will bother,as the payback time is just too long.No matter how well you insulate 2000 gallons of water,you are going to lose a good amount of that stored heat over a 24 hr period.It may only lose 5 degrees,but 5 degrees at 2000 gallons is a lot of heat.

 

[trialanderror]

Funny you mentioned no wood savings. I watched the video posted,and the wheelbarrow full of wood,and laughed at it. I burn 1/2 that much a day in my shaver,even on cold days and i dont need to cut it up small or anywhere near that.I do like how clean it burns,but the whole setup is cost prohibitive to the point that not many will bother,as the payback time is just too long.No matter how well you insulate 2000 gallons of water,you are going to lose a good amount of that stored heat over a 24 hr period.It may only lose 5 degrees,but 5 degrees at 2000 gallons is a lot of heat.

when i made my boiler, i put like 24" of batt on the top, and 12" on the sides
boiler only holds 85 gallons. in each house there's a 250gallon tank. almost 700 gallons total. any heat that is loss is at least inside a building

 

[Jeske 962]

Heat loss

One of the guys at work stopped at the boss' house to check the furnace out. He said it was hot inside the building even with the furnace insulated well, he said if it would be possible it would have been better to put the furnace in your garage and that way the heat would at least be used to heat that building. The only problem is the furnaces are about the size of a small car and you would have to have a garage big enough for that.

Joe