to prune my spruce or not to?

[denverlynx]

Hello,

I have a blue spruce (about 20' tall) rather close to my locust (about 30' tall). In my 5 years in the house I've only had the locust pruned(about 4 years ago). So I thought it was time get them both pruned. I got estimates from 4 companies. But, two out of the 4 said that the blue spruce did not need pruning. But, all were in agreement that it was time for the locust (some of its top branches cover the spruce).

Now, I haven't been able to get a hold of them for details. But, I was curious if anybody might be able to shed some light on this? Should I be having this spruce trimmed?

Thanks,
Shawn
Denver

 

[treeseer]

shed some light on this? Should I be having this spruce trimmed?

probably not; the program I think would be to shape the locust around the spruce so the spruce gets light shed on it. Impossible to advise intelligently until you post a picture. Best yet to send a private message here to Tom Dunlap, an arborist in your area.

 

[denverlynx]

Thanks. I just didn't even think about uploading a picture. I just did. I will PM Tom as well.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[treeseer]

Man that locust is making life soooooo hard on that spruce. But before you have it pruned, consider the long-term contribution and future of the spruce. Can it mature where it is? How much do you like it there?

Most spruces get quite large, so either plan on regularly pruning the locust away from the spruce, then pruning the spruce away form your structures as it matures, or move or cut down and sell the spruce as a big christmas tree this winter. You'll want to firm up your longterm landscape plan before more pruning.

Congrats to the 2 companies that declined to prune the spruce; kinda scary to contemplate what the other 2 would have done to it.

 

[denverlynx]

Well, just to give you a idea on what they would have done. They said 8-10" off each limb of the Spruce and then cut the Locust to clear it.

But, you bring up a good point about the future of the spruce. Not only is in a bad place under the Locust. Its about 6' from my house and its already over my neighbors yard.

The previous owners really didn't plan the trees to well. I already had to cut down a huge austrian pine because it was 3' from the house and its limbs were on the roof (and ruined the roof). I guess the day for spruce has come sooner than I expected because it just can't stay there forever. One of the companies reccommended a growth inhibitor. That doesn't sound good!

I wish there was a alternative for the poor tree. But, I guess its just going to have to come down.

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

you already have a growth inhibitor, the locust!

IMO, I'd choose the locust over the spruce and do as treeseer says, x-mas tree this winter

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

not only is the spruce in a bad place as you said, but by the picture it looks to be growing on a slant. I would guess it would be cheaper to remove the spruce than prune the locust to clear the spruce
In the furture you will be able to work the locust easier than the spruce.
(raising the crown, house clearance)

is that a Sunburst Locust?

 

[denverlynx]

Mike, your correct. It is slanted. It is on the SW side of the locust. So, its slanted towards the morning sun.

The Locust is a great tree. I don't know what type it is though. All I can tell you is that its leaves are yellow in the spring and turn green later. It also is always one of the last trees to leaf out each year.

This does bring out another question. Should I have the locust pruned? I was mainly going to do that to clear the spruce. The only other issue with the spruce is that large gap you see in the top. That is due to a early snow last year. It was last pruned 4 years ago.

One other question. Why would you not want to prune a spruce like this one? Will it kill the tree?

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

I am of the opinion that you should have a purpose when you prune. "It needs pruned" and "It needs thinned" are not good enough. There's no way to tell without looking it over.
some valid reasons to prune include dead, damaged or diseased branches, to raise the crown, house or line clearance

 

[denverlynx]

Unfortunately, I believe I found a reason to prune this old locust. The limb I thought that was just bent over was actually cracked. Its about a 1' long crack and its a pretty large limb up top. Ouch!

 

[treeseer]

So that's the branch in the upper right of the crown? How'd you get a closeup of it?

If so, removal would make a huge hole. I don't believe that every cracked branch must be removed. Can you get a portable drill up there, to install 2 thru- bolts in it to brace it? After that, removing the downrights and lighteneing the tip would allow the branch below to grow up more.

re growth regulator on the spruce, the makers of cambistat say it does not affect spruce much, so that would not fix the problem of poor placement.

 

[denverlynx]

Yes, that is what is causing the big gap up top and to the right there. My camera has a pretty good zoom so I was able to get the picture in pretty close.

I'm glad you brought that up. Because I think it will create a huge hole up to there as well. Like you said.

I'm not too familiar with thru-bolts. Would they be used to bring the crack to gether or just to prevent it from getting any larger?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[treeseer]

I'm not too familiar with thru-bolts. Would they be used to bring the crack to gether or just to prevent it from getting any larger?

That crack looks too old for it to close up any, so yes the bolts would be there to just brace it and hold it together.

From your description your tree may be a Gleditsia triacanthos var inermis 'Sunburst'--does it make fruit pods? Tops out at 35', the book says. Maybe someone with more experience with the species will comment on bracing vs. branch removal. Maybe over time the hole in the crown would be filled after branch removal, but I would not want to wait for that.

 

[denverlynx]

The tree might produce one or two pods a year. Not very many in comparison to some of the other trees in the neighborhood. It maybe right around that 35' heigth.

Should I be able to find those thru bolts at Home Depot or Lowes? Or are they something I might need to go to a hardware store for?

Thanks again.
Shawn

 

[treeseer]

Should I be able to find those thru bolts at Home Depot or Lowes? Or are they something I might need to go to a hardware store for?

Any of the above; given the choice, I'd patronize the smaller store.

By "thru-bolt", i just mean a bolt that goes thru the branch. Basic hardware; the trick is to get in safe position to install it.

 

[treesurgeon]

i did a trim job just like this one three weeks ago. a locust and a spruce just like these. but the spruce was as tall as the locust and they were growing into each other. we trimmed both trees and they look great now. we dont recommend trimming the out side of the spruce trees but this was a take it and do it or lose it job.
in your situation i would get rid of the spruce for sure. there is no reason to let it grow all crooked and ruin the shape of the locust tree. concentrate on the locust and make that your main tree. and about the main branch in the top, depending the size of it, the best thing to do is to thin out that branch so that other good branches take that spot over. over several years of trimming that branch there will be nothing left and it will still look like a beautiful tree.
this is the best advice i could give for now without more pics, details and your input.

 

[treesurgeon]

also, putting a bolt in that branch only works good if its trimmed properly also. locust tend to have problems twisting and cracking that way. i find the best cure is a professional trim job.

 

[denverlynx]

Thanks for all the input.

The spruce is definitely coming out. Whether I do it now or next spring its coming down. On thing you can't see from my pictures is root system is exposed and going the opposite direction of the direction its leaning.

I got a closer look at the crack this evening. I could get up to the cracked branch to insert some bolts and feel somewhat secure. I just couldn't go any further to trim it. So, I'm thinking I'm going to have somebody trim it. I had some earlier bids and they were ranging from $220 to $270 for the locust. I don't know how that compares to the rest of the country. The $220 guy actually voiced concerns about trimming the spruce in the first place and I felt pretty comfortable with him.

Thanks again.

 

[treeseer]

The spruce is definitely coming out.

Contact lodal govts and businesses about selling it, or donating it for a tax deduction.

I could get up to the cracked branch to insert some bolts and feel somewhat secure. The $220 guy actually voiced concerns about trimming the spruce in the first place and I felt pretty comfortable with him.
.

Then go with him, and tell him you will have the bolts and hardware ready to send up for th ebracing job. It'd be silly to make a separate climb to do this job. If he charges $75/hour and it takes 10 minutes to do the bracing job, that costs you an extra $12.50.

I agree totally with the last 2 posts aobut thinning/reducing the branch; echoing what I said before about getting the downrights off of it so the lower branch can grow up.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Do not bolt the branch.
This is one of those situations where I would do some slight reduction work on the limb, if anything at all.
When tree sustains an injury, it works hard to heal itself back up. It first sets up chemical boundaries to prevent decay from spreading, this is known as compartmentalization. The tree basically abandons an area of wood by walling it off, and then adds new wood around that area.
When an injury is large in comparison to the stem, the tree will compartmentalize the entire diameter of the branch. If you came back in several years, the branch will have a hollow inside the size of the limb at the time of the injury.
The new woundwood that is formed is very strong, stronger than the existing wood. In the years since the injury, that woundwood has stabilized the crack, and in time, the hole should completely close over.
If you re-injure the stem, by drilling holes through it, the tree will once again compartmentalize the stem, this time abandoning the extremely strong woundwood that has formed. This new, second batch of wood, will not be as strong, and in time, when the now abandoned woundwood rots away, it will likely fail.
Also, because all the wood between the nuts and head on the bolts will be abandoned, in time they will be doing nothing. In fact, because the crack is already stabilized, the bolts won't be able to pull the two halves together. They won't do anything positive.

As for the spruce, I agree it should be removed.