Toasted my clone ms660 on amsoil at 100:1

[Trellos]

For Xmas I received a hutlz ms660 kit. Took me about 8hrs to assemble everything fit smoothly (more or less).

She ran well from the get go. I used mb1-40 synthetic for assembly lube and did a slow break in. Starting at 20:1 penzoil AC and working up to 40:1 for general purpose. One month or so light daily use, wonderful saw, feels like a new Stihl.

Then on a whim I bought a bottle of amsoil and ran a tank at 80:1, seemed fine, thin oil. I wanted to believe in the magic of 100:1, I can't explain why I feel silly in retrospect. So I mix up a gallon at 100:1. Still not really working the saw too hard. Except for slabbing of the side of a 12" birch. Ran it wide open for several minutes. And then I was messing with the high idle and like and idiot using my cellphone to try and tune the sucker. I usually tune by ear but I had both ear plugs and music earmuffs going. (muffler ported) I knew the phone was giving bad readings and I increased the high idle speed too much. Kapow, she sized hard, metal shavings coming out the exhaust etc.

Upon tear down the lower rod bearing failed sending shards of metal up the cylinder etc. All pretty dry downstairs, interestingly enough the upstairs i.e. piston and cylinder it's self looked ok.
Just no lube in the case. I believe that had I been using regular mix the saw would not have been nearly so sensitive to the over reving.

I once had my real ms361 reving to 18k for brief moments during a tune/testing session and it didn't seem to hurt it.

I'm guessing the clone 660 bombed at around 14-15k, mind you running amsoil at 100:1.

Don't do what I did, amsoil is not real.

I rebuilt the saw and she runs good as of this moment. The only thing that doesn't work is the fast-idle-start position. Although she doesn't seem to need it.

Overall great saw, and the clone parts are just hilarious. I'm so amused. Took about three hours the second time to assemble. Seriously, what I learned is that I can blow it up and rebuild it for 50$? Good fun. If I can get 1000hrs or more between rebuilds I'll be thrilled.

 

[Colt Marlington]

That Amsoil Saber at 100 to 1 is probably fine for a handheld blower or a weedeater.

Lot of moving mass in a big saw like that though.

 

[dmb2613]

anyone that runs a saw with 100 to 1 any kind of oil is just plain nuts IMO

 

[full chizel]

Saber is good oil at 50/40:1 not 100:1

 

[Colt Marlington]

I was watching some videos on that oil. Some guys are running it in dirt bikes at 60 or 80 to 1.

But I've also read that Euro specs on 80cc and up saws calls for 33 to 1, even though 50 to 1 is suggested for the same saws in the U.S.

Seems logical to me that a bigger saw would need more oil.

 

[Trellos]

In retrospect I know how silly/crazy it was. I wanted to believe in it, what's really funny is that there's no good reason to run that thin. Not exactly sure what I was thinking. But for whatever reason I /wanted/ it to work. I'm going to stick with 30-40:1

 

[s sidewall]

I used to run 16:1, then I moved on up to 40:1. Bro talked me into 50:1, ran that for awhile then I decided to go back to 40:1, I rather have lube than dry parts. 100:1, too scary for me.

Steve

 

[champion221elite]

I run Amsoil Saber oil in my 2 stroke stuff, but there is no way I would ever run it at 100:1 no matter what the bottle says. 50:1 is perfect.

 

[s sidewall]

We had a truck come into the shop one day complaining about a roar from the rear. Guys an Amsoil dealer, amsoil stickers all over the truck. Tech pulled the diff cover and the lube looked like someone filled it up with foamy oil, looked like the foam from a fresh poured glass of beer. Bearing were messed up and gear pattern wear was terrible. I told the tech the oil was the problem because air displaced the lube. When the bubbles pop, there is no lube in the bearings or between the gears. Never seen GM lube do that before but that amsoil did. Owner didn't like hearing that.

Steve

 

[s sidewall]

If I'm not mistaken, that amsoil hadn't been in the diff but 6 months, about 6,000 miles.

Steve

 

[Ted Jenkins]

We all have to make some mistakes so our knowledge can be passed on. There have been so many threads about ratios and different mixes sorry you did not read them well. I have stated about anything over 40:1 at least forty times suggesting that it is risky. Now the readers can be aware. I use just about any oil that comes along for most of my saws including outboard oil. However I am very experienced at mixture adjustment. When ever any thing changes I check fuel mixture and pull the plug just to know. Thanks

 

[Trellos]

We all have to make some mistakes so our knowledge can be passed on. There have been so many threads about ratios and different mixes sorry you did not read them well. I have stated about anything over 40:1 at least forty times suggesting that it is risky. Now the readers can be aware. I use just about any oil that comes along for most of my saws including outboard oil. However I am very experienced at mixture adjustment. When ever any thing changes I check fuel mixture and pull the plug just to know. Thanks

No doubt, I believe you are correct. My understanding is that in general being that the ms660 is of older design and large displacement, ~25:1 is probably the original intended ratio. Modern oils /are/ better than they used to be, allowing for thinner, maybe cleaner burning mix.

In anycase I'm thrilled with the 'kit' saw. This one was a gift, but I'd buy one for sure, I think it well worth the dime if your mechanically inclined. If I were to build another it would be the 200t, followed by a 361. I have a pair of real 361's that I do 75+% of my cutting with. I climb with a 019t that wont die, but I'd love to have a 200t.

The 660 is basically the best saw I have ever run. Thrilled.

 

[Kensie1988]

Best explanation I've ever read about oil mix ratios was on a 2 stroke Moto cross forum. In the thread the guy explained that different two strokes operate on different power bands, a Moto cross bike while operating at high rpms most of the time are under load or operating in the upper power band 100% of the time so the mix ratios can be higher. A chainsaw where 99% of the time it's operating in the upper power band under load and sometimes heavy load need lower mix ratios to survive long term.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

 

[Kensie1988]

But also on the same not the modern full synthetic oils allow for a much higher mixture than your regular mix oils that aren't synthetic

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

 

[Huskybill]

I’m leary of the husky pre mix at 50-1. I add husky two stroke oil to the 50-1 pre mix can. At 40-1 that’s as far as I go. I’d rather foul a spark plug than buy new parts. A dirtbike can be rejetted to a change in pre mix a chain saw can’t be rejetted.

There is 100-1 optimal two stroke oil but never tried it.

 

[Franny K]

If I'm not mistaken, that amsoil hadn't been in the diff but 6 months, about 6,000 miles.

Steve

My 2012 F150 manual says the differential has synthetic oil and the only reason to change is if it is in a flood.

 

[Huskybill]

I seen motor oil do that when two different brands were mixed. Only seen it once in my life time. I wonder if someone added a quart of synthetic to regular motor oil.

 

[s sidewall]

My 2012 F150 manual says the differential has synthetic oil and the only reason to change is if it is in a flood.

GM also uses synthetic, but the lube doesn't foam up, that amsoil did.

Steve

 

[full chizel]

We had a truck come into the shop one day complaining about a roar from the rear. Guys an Amsoil dealer, amsoil stickers all over the truck. Tech pulled the diff cover and the lube looked like someone filled it up with foamy oil, looked like the foam from a fresh poured glass of beer. Bearing were messed up and gear pattern wear was terrible. I told the tech the oil was the problem because air displaced the lube. When the bubbles pop, there is no lube in the bearings or between the gears. Never seen GM lube do that before but that amsoil did. Owner didn't like hearing that.

Steve

Not sure about the roar but the foaming sounds normal to me. I’ve seen it a few times especially of the vehicle was just driven. The oil is getting whipped up by the gears spinning i doubt it had anything to do with Amsoil

 

[Mauser]

Not sure about the roar but the foaming sounds normal to me. I’ve seen it a few times especially of the vehicle was just driven. The oil is getting whipped up by the gears spinning i doubt it had anything to do with Amsoil

Foaming is NOT normal in any decent gear oil. Good oils have anti-foaming additives that work quite well. If there was foam in the gear case, it was either contaminated with water or had some really crappy oil in t.

I do not know if it was Amsoil's fault or not - I would never touch anything with that name on it, so I do not claim to have any personal knowledge of how it does or does not work.