Top Saws For Ground Use Or Homeowners?

[SmithEC]

Just when I was wondering how this thread has gone 4 pages and no one has anything to say about credentials required for chain purchases, someone finally says something.

The guy didn't say anything about he wanted an oral demonstration of knowledge. He said he wanted to see some "credentials". That's classic. I'm sure I would have been left speechless and I might would have just had to laugh a little at this guy's request for "credentials". Is there like an on-line test or something? Can you get these "credentials" thru the mail, by any chance?

I'm curious. Did this guy just want to talk? Was he one of them that doesn't want to listen, he just wants to talk?

Before coming upon AS, it never would have once occured to me that a top-handled saw presented any more danger than any other saw. I would think that Stihl would do well to suggest to their dealers that perhaps they might not want to display the top-handled saws. Sell them, but don't display them. Maybe that would do at least something towards keeping the saws out of the hands of folks who don't really know what the saw is.


edit to replace a verbal with an oral

 

[computeruser]

Just when I was wondering how this thread has gone 4 pages and no one has anything to say about credentials required for chain purchases, someone finally says something.

The guy didn't say anything about he wanted an oral demonstration of knowledge. He said he wanted to see some "credentials". That's classic. I'm sure I would have been left speechless and I might would have just had to laugh a little at this guy's request for "credentials". Is there like an on-line test or something? Can you get these "credentials" thru the mail, by any chance?

I'm curious. Did this guy just want to talk? Was he one of them that doesn't want to listen, he just wants to talk?

Yeah, I kinda wondered what he was going for with the request to "see some credentials". I'm not really sure what his goal was, but his presentation was rude and authoratarian - my store, my rules. I didn't get the feeling that conversation was the desired outcome of the interaction.

Regardless, the effect was the same - he did not sell me any RS chain that day, or any RM2 either, for that matter. I walked out and went to another dealer twenty minutes away.

 

[computeruser]

Before coming upon AS, it never would have once occured to me that a top-handled saw presented any more danger than any other saw. I would think that Stihl would do well to suggest to their dealers that perhaps they might not want to display the top-handled saws. Sell them, but don't display them. Maybe that would do at least something towards keeping the saws out of the hands of folks who don't really know what the saw is.

I think that the price-per-HP does enough to keep them out of the hands of the customers who don't understand their purpose. And the dealer's answer to the invariable question of "why does this funny looking saw cost so much more than this regular one with more HP" does the rest. After that point, it's on the customer to make a good decision.

As for the dealers not displaying the saws, I don't think that is the answer for a full-service saw/arborist shop that also sells climbing gear. These saws are an important part of their inventory and their bottom line; they should be displayed. If this logic were carried forward, we might soon only see MS170-250s on the shelf, with the larger saws and electrics hidden away out of sight...

 

[Lakeside53]

I think that the price-per-HP does enough to keep them out of the hands of the customers who don't understand their purpose. And the dealer's answer to the invariable question of "why does this funny looking saw cost so much more than this regular one with more HP" does the rest. After that point, it's on the customer to make a good decision.

As for the dealers not displaying the saws, I don't think that is the answer for a full-service saw/arborist shop that also sells climbing gear. These saws are an important part of their inventory and their bottom line; they should be displayed. If this logic were carried forward, we might soon only see MS170-250s on the shelf, with the larger saws and electrics hidden away out of sight...

The MS192T sell for about $300... so price doesn't really keep them away from the homeowners. Stihl literature and the sales catalog does say "professional in-tree use only", or to that effect, but...

To partially avoid the homeowner temptation, we just don't stock the 192T (but can get it overnight). The 200T are on display, and yes, at full list most homeowners are discouraged.

 

[hornett22]

this si still america!

sell the customer what they want.if they are gonna hurt themselves with a chainsaw it doesn't matter wher the handle is.if you don't like it,move across the pond wher they regulate everything.

 

[crashagn]

Was talking to the small engine repair/lawnmower/ chainsaw shop guy today.. he deals with jonsered and echo saws.. but has good prices on chain..He informed me.. when it storms hard around here and he knows thiers trees down.. when customers comeon wanting a saw.. He will not sell 1 to them, 1 becouse when he asks if they have ever ran a saw before and they say no. he does not want to hear about an accident from misuse or carelessness. 2. Tries to cutdown the so called "going buy me a saw and see if i can make some quick cash". And he beleives it would be a liability issue if he did sell the saw to someone and they refered his business in a bad way after 1 of these things happened. Me.. i complety agree

 

[Diesel JD]

I have seen a lot of 192Ts around here on showrooms , they go for about $269 in my neck of the woods. I seriously am considering one. I am not a pro, but i have a lot of hours running a saw and the 192T would be for trimming trees either in the tree or on the ground. The 025 gets the light limbing work, that can be dangerous enough, I just about gota good cut on my hand last weekend when I was swamping out the trail for our mosquito traps. They can all bite, I see how you can hurt yourself with your hands being closer to the chain, but I can't see how it is safer in a tree than on the ground..., I've held teh 192 and 200T but I've only ever cut with the 009, I guess running it makes a big difference.

 

[clearance]

Today at work the helicopter pilot said "that looks like a good firewood saw", I laughed and told him "no its not, the handles are too close together, you need a bigger saw anyways" The the guy said "the handle must be on top so you can use it with one hand" Perfect words for a ms200/020, I guess you have to have a brain to fly a chopper, don't really care to be in them myself, anyone out there know how safe Bell jetrangers and long rangers are? I know just enough to sit in the back.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

...anyone out there know how safe Bell jetrangers and long rangers are? I know just enough to sit in the back.

They're each a fine aircraft, and easy to work on. But I think that may have beena rhetorical question....

 

[Big feller]

sell the customer what they want.if they are gonna hurt themselves with a chainsaw it doesn't matter wher the handle is.if you don't like it,move across the pond wher they regulate everything.

Before we are done with the Nanny State...

In my part of the world you can't hire a gas chainsaw. You can hire an electric one. Take that where you will.

I hadn't heard that you couldn't buy a top handled saw over here without a certificate but it doesn't surprise me. As far as I know it is still possible to buy oxy-acetylene gear without going on a course but who knows...

Within the last few years I have had a "manual handling" course, a "noise at work" course, a "working at heights" course and now a driving course looms. Most of this is for an employer to pass responsibility onto employee.

All this helps the larger organisations keep the small traders noses out of the trough.

Back on topic - one of my first firewood saws was a second hand Mac 130. It's all very well refusing to sell an expensive top handled saw brand new and with instructions but more trouble must come from buying them second hand with no friendly warning from a dealer. Litigate against that and stay fashionable.

Big Feller

 

[Lakeside53]

They're each a fine aircraft, and easy to work on. But I think that may have beena rhetorical question....

Too many moving parts, and a crappy glide! Fun, but fixed wing for me.

 

[Mr.]

Too funny.

My cousin flies a chopper for the MI state police. He said in the military they shut them off and glided them in, in practice. The prop rotates backwards. He told me I was lucky I didn't ask him in the air.

I responded to him that he would have been dead before we hit the ground. HA

Don't buy a saw because it is "CUTE" buy a real saw.

Fred

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Thats called Autorotation, and its a manditory skill you must learn to get your license.


The Rotor dosent spin backwards its the blades pitch angle that reverses. This allows the rotor head to attain a high speed witch stores momentum.

Then when the pilot reaches a cretain altitude (usually 100s of feet) he can then use the stored momentum to make a controlled landing.


All in all, Choppers are safer than airplanes due to the fact that the pilot has about 80% more controll when the engine quits.

 

[clearance]

Thanks for the explanations, I like being near to the ground, but I guess over 60-80' it doesn't really matter.

 

[Lakeside53]

Ha! good luck at autorotation at 60 feet!


And Raised... With engine failure, I'll take my chances with "control" in a fixed wing (small plane, not airliner) rather than a chopper

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Its your baby.


Statistically there is a far greater chance of landing a copter than any plane.


They only require a 100X100' area to land, where as a plane require at least 1000' of straight, flat, unobstructed, Yada, Yada, Yada......



In a free fall in a copter from 60' you would probably survive. The skids and floor are designed to act like "Crumple zones" and the seats are hydrologically dampened to prevent major spinal trauma.


There a lot safer than you would think.

 

[sawn_penn]

In a free fall in a copter from 60' you would probably survive. The skids and floor are designed to act like "Crumple zones" and the seats are hydrologically dampened to prevent major spinal trauma.

Free fall is rarely free fall from 60'. There may be some residual power from the engine, and failing that there is rotor momentum.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Helos are the only way to go! Here I am in a helo safely landing on the back of the Cutter Hamilton. I sit behind the pilots, in the flight mechanic position, but I think you can see my knee sticking out the door...

(Sorry dial-uppers, 900k.)

 

[sawn_penn]

Helos are the only way to go! Here I am in a helo safely landing on the back of the Cutter Hamilton. I sit behind the pilots, in the flight mechanic position, but I think you can see my knee sticking out the door...

(Sorry dial-uppers, 900k.)

Those things always sound like the bearing in the tail rotor has gone...

 

[hamradio]

I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to sell a 191 or 200 to a homeowner. I'd say, the perfect homeowner STIHL is probably a MS210, or a MS170. Little saw, great for cutting up little stuff, and durable. I've got a saw similar in design to the 191 or 200; a Olympyk 935DF. Cutting with it the first time was weird, since I didn't have the leverage in back that I have on my 011 or 039.