Topping Banned

[Jlarnard]

Kind of interesting now that I think of it though, is anyone familier with the British practice of "Coronation pruning"?

I'm not. How about a new thread on it. I'm going to google it now.

 

[BRCCArborist]

It's kind of strange really, basically it involves topping a tree, except you score the branches at the cut and give them a pointy, crown like shape, hence the name. The purpose is for wildlife habitat, I guess animals and birds are supposed to utilize the tree for habitat? I don't know, Arbtalk.uk is where I saw this. It's interesting to say the least, and just goes to show how arboriculture is practiced and differs in other locations.

 

[RedlineIt]

clearance,

Yeah I got a weepy goodbye PM from Reitkerk too. But he was talking about calling in the cops, the police for tree crimes for pete's sake. I said then and say now that tree preservation Bylaws ought to be enforced by the Bylaw office.

And when a municipality enacts and enforces tree Bylaws, the enforcement is done by Arborists who are additionally qualifed as Bylaw enforcement officers. They understand when when a tree has got to go, when cable/bracing is just a stopgap for a few more years, when a proper reduction is a perfectly good idea and so on.

Esquimalt in particular is an oceanside community and preserving views are appreciated as a legitimate concern.

The permit process does not stand in the way of tree work, but it certainly does work well in keeping the hayseed with a pickup and a poulan wild thing from canvassing the neighbourhood looking for $100 hit-and-run hack jobs.

And as far as the building permit analogy goes, and the right to do whatever you want on private land, you can't buy a two story home in Esquimalt and then add a third floor, not if it blocks someone else's view or shades out their back garden, permit denied!


RedlineIt

 

[lh3]

understand that...

but the customer is always right(not really). I made the recommendation to take the whole tree out, but they are set on leaving the tree standing and cutting the hanging top out.

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

So... if I have a customer who has a healthy tree that has been broken in half by hurricane winds and only wants the hanging part down. Is there something i can put on the trunk after cutting to ward off rot, disease? I have not run into this before?

Nothing should be applied to pruned wood. Only a proper cut will allow a tree to fully and healthfully compartmentalize(HEAL). If that top broke out close enough to a neighboring limb that was no less than 1/3 it's size, you could cut it back to a collar and allow it to compartmentalize and it probably would heal up. However the tree most likely would at that point be off balance without the vertical growth of the broken piece there, and the fact that it's left with a lateral that has assumed the terminal role in that particular situation could not make it up safely in the crown. So, the tree would be safest taken out, and that would be a just and educated sales pitch for yourself to have the opportunity to plant the folks the right sapling for the area.

 

[jrietkerk]

clearance,

Yeah I got a weepy goodbye PM from Reitkerk too. But he was talking about calling in the cops, the police for tree crimes for pete's sake. I said then and say now that tree preservation Bylaws ought to be enforced by the Bylaw office.

And when a municipality enacts and enforces tree Bylaws, the enforcement is done by Arborists who are additionally qualifed as Bylaw enforcement officers. They understand when when a tree has got to go, when cable/bracing is just a stopgap for a few more years, when a proper reduction is a perfectly good idea and so on.

Esquimalt in particular is an oceanside community and preserving views are appreciated as a legitimate concern.

The permit process does not stand in the way of tree work, but it certainly does work well in keeping the hayseed with a pickup and a poulan wild thing from canvassing the neighbourhood looking for $100 hit-and-run hack jobs.

And as far as the building permit analogy goes, and the right to do whatever you want on private land, you can't buy a two story home in Esquimalt and then add a third floor, not if it blocks someone else's view or shades out their back garden, permit denied!


RedlineIt

Wow. You 2 are still hanging on to this one. For the record, again, I came across a guy in a municipal Oak, doing all kinds of dumb things in the tree including using spurs and endangering the public. You want I should bring in bylaw and try to shove an infraction notice in his pocket after he's damaged a heritage tree for beer money? Private trees are a different story, although if I found someone in my yard pruning my tree I'd call the police too, even if he was making good cuts. Hope all is well in Squampton. And I love you too Jim!

 

[RiverRat2]

Best answer.

Yep!!! and periodically carefully planned/executed crown reductions can and actually do the trees and the home owners in urban settings a win win scenario,, Besides the best urban setting trees are the ones we can keep working on!!!! $$$!!!!!

 

[lxt]

Tree Laws??? Please..... we know or the majority of us know right from wrong, but in the end its the home owners choice!!!

I live in pa, I have to have my vehicles inspected & must pass emissions tests, meanwhile the folks from ohio who commute to work here need nothing!! clothes hangers holding up their exhaust and duct tape to patch the holes in the body..... PONIT... there are more important laws to pass concerning the enviroment than a no "topping" ban!


LXT..........

 

[treeseer]

Nothing should be applied to pruned wood. ...If that top broke out close enough to a neighboring limb that was no less than 1/3 it's size, you could cut it back to a collar ...the fact that it's left with a lateral that has assumed the terminal role in that particular situation could not make it up safely in the crown. So, the tree would be safest taken out, and that would be a just and educated sales pitch

How educated--enough to be dangerous?


1. It makes sense to experiment with sealants where a lot of heartwood is exposed.

2. The 1/3 guideline is only one factor to use to locate a reduction cut.

3. A broken tree is more than a sales pitch for removal.
Trees that have lost sections can and do replace those sections, and reshape themselves to restore balance. We can learn a lot by observing how trees restore themselves, and anticipate that process.

They've been doing it for a lot longer than we have.

TOPPING NO, REDUCTION YES


Consider crown reduction when a big tree is declining, or the root system of a large-maturing tree is confined to a small soil space. Sometimes as little as a 3 to 6 foot reduction in height can add a great amount of stability to a large tree.. Before cutting any branches to reduce the size of the canopy, visualize the new canopy outline. Reduce the size of a tree with reduction cuts, shortening those branches which extend beyond the new, smaller canopy.

Proper canopy reduction makes the tree smaller but leaves no visible branch stubs. Allow sprouts to grow from the reduction cuts, then in the dormant season one or two years later, remove the less desirable sprouts. Crown reduction may be as much an art as a science, but with the help of new resources it can be learned by any motivated arborist.

Dr. Ed Gilman’s recently revised Illustrated Guide to Pruning features an in-depth look at techniques to achieve crown reduction and every other goal for pruning a tree. The illustrations help the words come to life, as the reader is shown the principles described. The book is available through ISA or the publisher www.thomsonlearning.com. It belongs with everyone who prunes trees and their supervisors.

 

[pdqdl]

Nice concept, but...

How would arboriculture be if we had 'arbo inspectors' like the building industry has 'building inspectors'?

Lots of building practices are not allowed, or 'banned'.

When you build it wrong, you can usually rip it out and do it again, per the inspectors requirements.

I can see some problems with using that plan on trees. But what a great idea for some ideologues to try to implement!

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

How educated--enough to be dangerous?


1. It makes sense to experiment with sealants where a lot of heartwood is exposed.

2. The 1/3 guideline is only one factor to use to locate a reduction cut.

3. A broken tree is more than a sales pitch for removal.
Trees that have lost sections can and do replace those sections, and reshape themselves to restore balance. We can learn a lot by observing how trees restore themselves, and anticipate that process.

They've been doing it for a lot longer than we have.

TOPPING NO, REDUCTION YES


Consider crown reduction when a big tree is declining, or the root system of a large-maturing tree is confined to a small soil space. Sometimes as little as a 3 to 6 foot reduction in height can add a great amount of stability to a large tree.. Before cutting any branches to reduce the size of the canopy, visualize the new canopy outline. Reduce the size of a tree with reduction cuts, shortening those branches which extend beyond the new, smaller canopy.

Proper canopy reduction makes the tree smaller but leaves no visible branch stubs. Allow sprouts to grow from the reduction cuts, then in the dormant season one or two years later, remove the less desirable sprouts. Crown reduction may be as much an art as a science, but with the help of new resources it can be learned by any motivated arborist.

Dr. Ed Gilman’s recently revised Illustrated Guide to Pruning features an in-depth look at techniques to achieve crown reduction and every other goal for pruning a tree. The illustrations help the words come to life, as the reader is shown the principles described. The book is available through ISA or the publisher www.thomsonlearning.com. It belongs with everyone who prunes trees and their supervisors.

First of all, good post. However i do have a problem experimenting with my customers trees like you advocate. The tree has it's own form of healing and compartmentilzation when the proper pruning cuts have been implemented. That's a fact. The post talked about a large section snapping out of a tree in a storm(which most of the time means there is a structural/decay, etc. issue existing already) which in laymans terms means it is still SAFEST to remove the tree! In that particular situation, liability is totally deminished, by removal of that storm damaged tree, in most cases. Mr. Gilman's Illustrated guide to pruning is also a very good reference like you say. I'm the only company in my county who does not top, and does practice crown reduction.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

First of all, good post. However i do have a problem experimenting with my customers trees like you advocate. The tree has it's own form of healing and compartmentilzation when the proper pruning cuts have been implemented. That's a fact. The post talked about a large section snapping out of a tree in a storm(which most of the time means there is a structural/decay, etc. issue existing already) which in laymans terms means it is still SAFEST to remove the tree! In that particular situation, liability is totally deminished, by removal of that storm damaged tree, in most cases. Mr. Gilman's Illustrated guide to pruning is also a very good reference like you say. I'm the only company in my county who does not top, and does practice crown reduction.

Now, that's a balanced approach. Taking good care of the trees we can, and knowing when to hug them goodbye when we can't, or shouldn't.

 

[Jlarnard]

Just to make sure I am not out of touch here.
I remember way back in the day that we jumped back and forth between pruning paint and not. It is my understanding that the standard is to not paint, did I miss another change?

 

[BRCCArborist]

Just to make sure I am not out of touch here.
I remember way back in the day that we jumped back and forth between pruning paint and not. It is my understanding that the standard is to not paint, did I miss another change?

I have no idea, I thought it was deemed poor practice, but I don't know. Thats another problem with makng tree laws, arboriculture is too new of a science, and the standards change all the time. A lot of what is deemed "Standard" and "poor practice" seems to contradict itself anyway. I just try to use common sense.

 

[S Mc]

First of all, good post. However i do have a problem experimenting with my customers trees like you advocate. The tree has it's own form of healing and compartmentilzation when the proper pruning cuts have been implemented. That's a fact. The post talked about a large section snapping out of a tree in a storm(which most of the time means there is a structural/decay, etc. issue existing already) which in laymans terms means it is still SAFEST to remove the tree! In that particular situation, liability is totally deminished, by removal of that storm damaged tree, in most cases. Mr. Gilman's Illustrated guide to pruning is also a very good reference like you say. I'm the only company in my county who does not top, and does practice crown reduction.

Without seeing the tree and knowing the species this is an overly broad statement that many times will not hold true. I am picturing many trees in our area that have suffered storm damage and been left, and are doing fine. You could conversely argue that the tree/storm took care of the weak part and now the tree is much more stable.

Did I miss a picture on this thread?

With respect to the questions re painting wounds, ANSI standards say it is not warranted unless for disease control or for cosmetic reasons. (Bold emphasis mine.) How does that translate to its being harmful?

Sylvia

 

[clearance]

Wow. You 2 are still hanging on to this one. For the record, again, I came across a guy in a municipal Oak, doing all kinds of dumb things in the tree including using spurs and endangering the public. You want I should bring in bylaw and try to shove an infraction notice in his pocket after he's damaged a heritage tree for beer money? Private trees are a different story, although if I found someone in my yard pruning my tree I'd call the police too, even if he was making good cuts. Hope all is well in Squampton. And I love you too Jim!

Really.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have no idea, I thought it was deemed poor practice, but I don't know. Thats another problem with makng tree laws, arboriculture is too new of a science, and the standards change all the time. A lot of what is deemed "Standard" and "poor practice" seems to contradict itself anyway. I just try to use common sense.

Yeah, commonsense is beginning to be a lost art these days.
I remember when we used the little buckets and brushed it on
now one thing I can say, I ain't no painter I thought
toxins absorbed were detrimental to the living tissue and the
paint sealer was merely for cosmetics or to help with pest issues.

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Without seeing the tree and knowing the species this is an overly broad statement that many times will not hold true. I am picturing many trees in our area that have suffered storm damage and been left, and are doing fine. You could conversely argue that the tree/storm took care of the weak part and now the tree is much more stable.

Did I miss a picture on this thread?

With respect to the questions re painting wounds, ANSI standards say it is not warranted unless for disease control or for cosmetic reasons. (Bold emphasis mine.) How does that translate to its being harmful?

Sylvia

Sounds like your advocating tree topping bud, that's bad.

 

[S Mc]

Clearview Tree,

How on earth did you take "suffered storm damage and were left, and are doing fine" as advocating tree topping?

I always advocate an informed and individual treatment plan that takes into consideration all the facts and details. Not just simply broad generalizations that may or may not be applicable.

Sylvia

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Trees are communal assets in their native woods amongst their own brethren. i thinkit is high time we view trees in more of an 'Indian' way as belonging to all in a certain respect. Their beauty, hazards and all they due for the planet extends far beyond just whom owns the postage stamp of ground they are stemmed to.

Sum experimentation is kinda like a doc saying that he practices medicine. With all the paradigms we have run into in this field, how can you rule that out, and say you are doing best?? How does someone that all ways colors inside the lines get into this gig anyway?

Sum paintin' can be in order for certain non-cosmetics (as stated). Certain dis-eases, insects, mistltoe etc. take special, measured strategies that weight out the pros and cons.

There was a good side to painting as i was coming through the stinkin'ranks. As a juniour climber we had to follow another sometimes and paint their cuts, which took sometimes better positioning , but less chainsaw risk in air! The spring hole on many poles still exist for brush.