Tractor hard starting
- Thread starter bohawg1
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Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
I just installed a engine heater on our Kobelco back hoe at work. It is a ProHeat oil pan heater. Block heaters don't warm the engine oil making for hard cranking over of the engine, these heaters are stuck to the bottom of the oil pan with some type of peel and stick adhesive they warm the engine oil and also the heat rises and heats the entire engine also. They come in different sizes for how big your oil pan capacity is. Check it out at http://www.engineheaters.com/why.htm
LumberjkChamp
ArboristSite Operative
Glad you stated an often unmentioned fact. Yes folks, ether can throw rods, blow holes in pistons, bend valves, lift heads and blow head gaskets. Only use as little as possible as a last resort to start the engine.
savageactor7
ArboristSite Guru
Our machines are kept in a detached unheated garage. These inexpensive clip on lights under the oil pan are enough to keep the oil thin enough to get good spin. The diesel has a 60watt, gas 40.
chuckwood
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'd suggest to use only diesel
Jet fuel is basically just kerosene, which is a lighter oil than diesel. Yeah, it'll probably be easier to start a diesel engine with kerosene fuel, but you'll damage a diesel engine sooner or later running it that way. Diesels can run on just about any fuel, from hair tonic to paint thinner to canola oil, but long term they are *designed* to run on diesel fuel for reliability. Kerosene will burn differently in the combustion chambers than diesel will.
Jet fuel is basically just kerosene, which is a lighter oil than diesel. Yeah, it'll probably be easier to start a diesel engine with kerosene fuel, but you'll damage a diesel engine sooner or later running it that way. Diesels can run on just about any fuel, from hair tonic to paint thinner to canola oil, but long term they are *designed* to run on diesel fuel for reliability. Kerosene will burn differently in the combustion chambers than diesel will.
wkpoor
Addicted to ArboristSite
I spike all the fuel with 2 cycle oil to lube the pump. I've had others say the same. Been running it that way for 3yrs now. I know others that have been doing it many years in all sorts of equipment without nary a problem yet. I have a friend who drove to work about 19yrs in a VW rabbit diesel w/jet fuel the whole time. I'll let you know in 20yrs how well it worked.
My $0.02 worth
Some engines can handle a little ether.
Some engines can NOT!
I saw a fella grinding away on the starter of a rather large Peterbuilt "where is the ether?" I fetched a can.... You crank it, quick shot, and it runs! There are other engines where you are likely to blow the thing apart.
Block heaters are awsum.
I have heard about that rig using a pair of hoses to warm a diesel from your pickup. Very, very effective. The other system was the pony motor. More seasoned folks will recall that system.
Some engines can handle a little ether.
Some engines can NOT!
I saw a fella grinding away on the starter of a rather large Peterbuilt "where is the ether?" I fetched a can.... You crank it, quick shot, and it runs! There are other engines where you are likely to blow the thing apart.
Block heaters are awsum.
I have heard about that rig using a pair of hoses to warm a diesel from your pickup. Very, very effective. The other system was the pony motor. More seasoned folks will recall that system.
wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
When adding 200* antifreeze from a running vehicle to one thats 0* or colder, wouldn't there be a risk of cracking something due to fast temperature change?
That clip on light is a good idea too, the radiant heat power of spot lights or halogen work lights can work wonders.
I recall stories of guys using coals or candles when away from electricity sources.
That clip on light is a good idea too, the radiant heat power of spot lights or halogen work lights can work wonders.
I recall stories of guys using coals or candles when away from electricity sources.
Steve NW WI
Unwanted Riff Raff.
Good thinking with the 2 stroke oil. During Desert Shield/Storm, we ran JP-8 (jet fuel) in all our trucks. Late 70's era Big Cam 400 cummins engines. We replaced all but one or two injector pumps out of a fleet of 50, due to lack of lubrication to seals. After replacement, the new pumps never gave a problem, I'd guess due to better seal materials in the new ones.
Jet fuel is probably no "drier" than the Ultra Low sulfur on highway fuel sold today, which when it was mandated, was going to kill every diesel in existence.
Years back I had a neighbor that used a charcoal grill as the heater for his old Minneapolis Moline. It worked, but any oil or fuel leaks, and I'd be scared.
SWI Don
ArboristSite Guru
Started dad's old A last Sunday to get me unstuck. Sitting outside and popped right off. The electronic ignition I put on it sure helped.
The cummins in my pickup will start down to about 20 or a little less without heat but might take a few tries before it will get past sputtering. I still haven't hooked up the grid heater. Plugging it in, it always pops right off.
Traditionally the older IHC diesels in the '60's and 70's will as a rule start in the cold a lot better than the green ones. There are some exceptions. The guys I used to work for in HS have a 70 4020 that will start when it is very cold. I has had a recent overhaul and everything is back up in top shape.
With the 4020's growing up, we always just did a quick squirt in the clean out port in the air cleaner. If you had to hit it more than twice, you plugged it in and changed your schedule.
Don
The cummins in my pickup will start down to about 20 or a little less without heat but might take a few tries before it will get past sputtering. I still haven't hooked up the grid heater. Plugging it in, it always pops right off.
Traditionally the older IHC diesels in the '60's and 70's will as a rule start in the cold a lot better than the green ones. There are some exceptions. The guys I used to work for in HS have a 70 4020 that will start when it is very cold. I has had a recent overhaul and everything is back up in top shape.
With the 4020's growing up, we always just did a quick squirt in the clean out port in the air cleaner. If you had to hit it more than twice, you plugged it in and changed your schedule.
Don
builder1101
ArboristSite Operative
haven't had a problem yet.
How would it be different when pulling 30K# uphill, foot the the floor, water temp rising, then tripping the thermostat, which lets in water that's had a fan pulling air through water which is now ice cold move into the heads/block?
Also it's a slow circulation, not a high pressure high gpm pump....
trialanderror
ArboristSite Operative
200 to 0 isn't a huge range...
starting an ice cold engine, that's 0 degrees, with fuel igniting around 1100*, that's a huge difference. Seems like heads and cylinder walls around the water jacket would crack right?
Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well it was -2° this morning I plugged in that ProHeat oil pan heater I installed yesterday on the Kobelco sk300 backhoe had it plugged in for one hour and it fired right up, I am going to install them on our John Deere 450H and 550H crawlers now, so far I am impressed, that Kobelco was a hard starting s.o.b. when its zero out.
wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for the responses, puts things in perspective. 
I have always been told that oil pan heaters worked well but not to leave them on all the time or over night because they heated the oil so hot that it would ruin the oil. I never used one for that reason. Again this is what I have been told, don't know for fact. I use a water heater on my radiator line on mine and it has always worked for me but usually I keep my tractor in an unheated shed and unless it is very cold it starts right up anyway.
The ultra diesel that we by at the pump around has the sulfer amount lowered and in all older equipment you should use an additive to add lube as sulfur is an lubricant. I again was told that anything older than 07 should have an additive added to keep the pumps happy.
I use an additive that you get from walmart in all my farm equipment just to lube the pumps and I think it helps.
The ultra diesel that we by at the pump around has the sulfer amount lowered and in all older equipment you should use an additive to add lube as sulfur is an lubricant. I again was told that anything older than 07 should have an additive added to keep the pumps happy.
I use an additive that you get from walmart in all my farm equipment just to lube the pumps and I think it helps.
Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
They say this one won't carbonize the oil like they did in the old days, or those dipstick oil heaters. I probably won't ever leave it on all night even though they say you can with these. I do know warming the oil in the oil pan will help a lot, I only had it plugged in for 1 hr. this morning and it popped right off at zero temp. outside, I imagine when it's -20° I will have to leave it on for 2 or 3 hours before starting, but that would only be in an emergency who wants to work when it's that cold? It's very hard on the machinery. So I'm basically thinking from zero degree's on up, I only need to plug it in for about 1 hour before starting.
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I can say when it gets below 0 I am inside unless its an emergceny or I am chasing deer. Ha Ha. I just thought I would pass this on as useful information. Anything that you can do basically to warm up the fluids will help. I have two 6 volt batteries on my tractor just to give it more crank amps when its cold instead of one 12 volt.
ducati996
ArboristSite Lurker
What would the advantages be running jet fuel? it has to be considerably more expensive than diesel no? If its kerosene than your running a big risk on a newer machine....simple pump diesel with additives should take care of the weather extremes in your area correct?
Im the last one to question somebody in why they do what they do. You are free to use what you wish, just want to know the benefits in doing so, if you dont mind..
Duc
hermit
ArboristSite Operative
The military uses JP8 in all diesels nowdays. Reason= Lots of equip and one fuel. The shop where I worked for 35 yrs we used Power Service in the JP8, no problems. I use Power Service in my diesel for farm tractors also. I like the radiator hose heaters myself, but, doesn't get below 0 very often in Arkansas.
