Trouble keeping fire established in wood stove

[WhiteMike]

Temp in the 30s this morning so I decided to make my first fire and test out the stove. Trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I built the fire leaving plenty of room for air flow, keep the door open until the fire is well established and then shut the door with the air inlet control still fully open. the flames start dying down almost instantly once I shut the door and after about 10 minutes they're completely gone... Coals on the wood are still going but no flames.

 

[treesmith]

Damp wood or restricted air would be my guess

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[WhiteMike]

It has to be airflow. With the door open it burns very well and then goes out with the door shut even with the air control all the way open. I just paid 150$ for a cleaning/inspection. The guy came while I was at work and my wife said he was only here for about 30 minutes and he never got on the roof or anything. He told her "everything looks good". Wondering if I should call them back

 

[MountainHigh]

Damp wood or restricted air would be my guess
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yup .... damp wood or air flow my guess as well.

Damp wood is pretty easy to pin point if you have an eye/ear for seasoned wood, or a moisture meter. (wood at 20% moisture will struggle until adequate time to burn the moisture off). i.e. it's going to take longer to get a hot fire up and running.

If you suspect damp wood, (listen for any hissing as water burns off) and/or try to start a fire just with only clean mill ends or dry palettes. If she starts and hold a good flame with door closed on super dry wood, then that's your issue - solution, dry your wood out more - new EPA stoves demand dry wood.

Air flow can be more complicated:
- Chimney long enough for house draft?
- Chimney plugged or oversize? Oversize chimney's take longer to 'suck' - a warm chimney is the motor of a fire - it needs to get warm in order to create the draft on your stove.
- Any back puffing on opening door? That would signal a weak draft.
- Drafting features, i.e. stove in basement with no outside air intake may not provide adequate oxygen? Does cracking a window near the stove to let air into the home make any difference?

What kind of chimney is it? 6" metal pipe or clay tiles? bends in the chimney or straight up?

Stove brand?

Anything blocking the stove air inlet?

 

[blades]

location says BC Mountains-- so to add to the above possible external down draft causing difficulties as well- can be caused by home, nearby structures, trees , terrain. What kind of cap on flue? Does it have screening around it? Screening could be partiality block-even with optical enhancement it is difficult to tell from the ground. 30 Minutes for a cleaning? Heck, it would take 10 min just screw all the rods together. " Person never went on roof" - that means a bottom up cleaning so add another 15 min at least just to put some sheets or set up a vacuum to keep from getting soot all over everything inside.

 

[MountainHigh]

Clarification blades .... the OP is in Idaho, but your points are well taken.

I'm in BC

 

[Ranchers-son]

I have 16' double wall chimney mounted on outside wall. When I let it get cold 30* or colder I have to burn 1 cu/ f or so with door open till it's almost coals top it off and let the fresh start to burn before my chimney is hot

 

[unclemoustache]

Hmm - if it were the chimney, he'd have smoke in his house. It must be the inlet. Since you paid money, I'd call them back and complain, and also ask why they didn't get on the roof and look down it.

 

[unclemoustache]

And you said 'test out the stove.' Is it new or did you get it used?

 

[blades]

Mountain sorry been like this all last week. Murphy working overtime , the little devil.

 

[Del_]

More seasoned wood is the answer.

 

[MountainHigh]

Mountain sorry been like this all last week. Murphy working overtime , the little devil.

no worries I know Murphy very well.

 

[greenskeeper]

If it is a brand new stove it's possible the firebrick hasn't cured yet and the OP might have to run the stove with the door cracked open for the first fire.

 

[battlefordguy]

New stove? Perhaps there is some. Type of control for combustion or primary air???.


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[WhiteMike]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englande...291302_slid_&gclid=CM7z4e6i_M4CFRSVfgod9ZILwA
Its an englander stove. used not new, i just moved into a house that was built in 2014 so its not very old. 6 inch chimney that runs straight up and out of the roof (2 stories). not sure of the diffrent types of flue caps but it looks like a mushroom cap with about a 6 inch gap. the screen has been taken off. im not sure what to look for for back puffing? also not sure how to check if the air inlet is blocked, i looked through the owners manual and stuck my hand underneath the stove to try to feel where the inlet is but i havent found it yet. Ill have to clean my stove out and keep looking. ive attempted 3 fires so far and here are the results...
1. had to keep the door open or it would die, after about 45 minutes of this it finally began to burn with the door shut and small flames but it did keep burning. it was a pretty windy day
2. took the advice in here and burned some pinewood boards. they burned absolutely fine with no problems staying lit. no wind and realtively cool outside.
3. started a fire and kept burning kindling with the door open to try to heat the chimney. after about 10 minutes threw a seasoned (i think) piece of red fir on there and it burned vey well until i shut the door. went out almost immediately. it had rained all night the night before and was very humid/damp air.

the glass on the door is also getting dirty very quickly. it was just cleaned and is pretty black now. not sure what this could be a sign of?
the previous owners left about a cord of what i thought to be seasoned red fir.. its at least a year old and is stacked on pallets in an open wood shed. the wood feels very dry but i dont have much of a feel for what it should be yet. some of the peices have what looks like crystalized pitch on the outside...not sure if thats really what it is.

also wanted to ask...my stove doesnt have a blower on it. Its supposed to come with one but the previous owners said they never put it on because they didnt need it and that the stove got the whole place nice and warm (they couldve been lying) its 1600 sq feet downstairs and 600 upstairs with the stove right in the middle of the first floor basically. Just wanting to get everyones opinion on getting a blower.

thanks for all the help!

 

[tla100]

Do you have a dedicated fresh air supply into the stove? If your house is pretty tight, you may need the stoves own fresh air inlet. Mine worked OK for the first month or so, but had a few backdrafts in the middle of the night due to not enough oxygen fed in box i think. Coals were lit, but not enough heat going up the chimney to keep a good draft. Scares the crap out of you when carbon monoxide detector goes off at 3 am. Cut a 4" hole outside, hooked 4" duct up to back of stove, and good to go. I do have some issues loosing draft if I don't keep a good fire going when really cold, or starting it up initially some days.

Blowers will help get more heat out of stove. I added one a couple months in. Spendy sucker, I think $200, and they gave it too me a little over their cost, I bought stove on clearance for $300. Try it without, and see how it goes.

Black soot on door glass happens, usually if I am in a hurry and don't have fire stoked real good in morning, also wet wood. I leave the door cracked for 20-30 minutes and get fire rolling good and then close up. If coaling up bad, I will just leave door wide open for a couple hours until they are burnt down. Really throws some heat out, and not worried about creosote buildup with red hot coals, usually on really cold days when temps are single digits.

 

[CaseyForrest]

TO expand on the above.... You can check how tight your house is by closing the stove and cracking a window or door. If the fire starts going then you have a tight house.

It sounds like your wood is to wet. It can be to wet and you wont hear any hissing coming out of it. You can burn it if you get a good bed of coals going and the stove hot prior to trying to burn it, but it would have to be 1 piece at a time in with good dry wood.

The problem with wood that's to wet is to much heat energy goes into boiling the moisture out that by the time the moisture is gone, you've lost a fair bit of heat. Thats one of the reasons why your glass is getting dirty, fire is cooling off to much and things are smoldering trying to burn.

EDIT: I wouldn't think you'd need a blower for the space you describe. Natural convection will move the heat around just fine.

 

[Streblerm]

I have exactly the same stove and I love it. When the fire is started the primary (only) damper should be pulled all the way out. All the way out is open, all the way closed cuts of most of the primary air. I suppose it is possible that the damper is not attached to the rod. I have never had occasion to tear mine apart. Honestly I'm not sure how the rod and damper are connected. My starting ritual is three good dry pieces of wood and two pieces of fat wood fire starter. As soon as I hear crackling I can shut the door. This is usually a matter of seconds. Once the fire is established and the stove is throwing heat I close the damper to about 80% closed and I walk away. If the wood is less than dry I have had to leave the door cracked for five minutes or so. Weather, wind, temperature, and barometric pressure can all have an effect on fire starting as well.

I suspect, like others, that your wood is less than dry and that is your problem. Try starting the fire with smaller splits and don't be afraid to use a good amount of kindling. Try leaving the door cracked for a bit longer to let the fire get established, just don't take your eyes off it or leave the room while the door is open.

Every stove has a learning curve. If you are new to the stove or new to wood burning it may take you a while to get the feel for it. I suspect in a short time you will be enjoying the radiant heat from your stove.

On the topic of blowers, I don't use mine due to clearance issues. I can heat my entire 2200sf farm house with no blower The temperature spread across the entire house is about ten degrees. The coldest rooms are the bedrooms upstairs and they are still livable. I actually find the temp spread to be comfortable. If the stove room is too warm I know I can go to the far living room and it will be a bit cooler. Sleeping rooms stay in the low to mid 60s which is perfect for sleeping IMHO.

 

[Streblerm]

With an outside chimney it may take a few minutes to warm up the chimney. With a cold chimney draft is severely diminished.

The stove works best when wood is stacked front to back, not side to side. The primary air feeds the fire from the bottom center in the front.

 

[user 122190]

Every stove has a learning curve. If you are new to the stove or new to wood burning it may take you a while to get the feel for it. I suspect in a short time you will be enjoying the radiant heat from your stove.

So true. Last year, 3rd year with the stove, I had to learn yet another lesson.

Sounds like the OP, is going to solve the mystery very soon.