Troy-Bilt Chainsaws, believe it or not

[ozflea]

Sounds like if ya can't beat them you buy them out that way you corner the market and i suppose in todays business world as long as the sharehoders are making a quid who cares, only hope that it's these mums and dads that get caught when they buy one of their saws and it craps itself then their big investment will end up owing them and not a profit either but a lose.
And i suppose the future will bear this out as the bigger companies like Stihl and Husqvarna battle to maintain market share what their quality levels plummet to compete especially Stihl which are already an expensive saw and must be loosing sales to the cheaper brands as Joe average doesn't understand what quality is till he's sampled something else.

Mc Bob.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/ozflea/saws.html

 

[JohnL]

Alot of people must buy junk equipment, or it wouldn't be profitable to make it. Seems like they accept the idea of replacing it every couple of years without being bothered by it. I would say the initial price of higher quality scares them off.

On the other hand, homeowner grade stuff used to be made alot better, maybe it used to cost more, (more money put into making it) or people were less tollerant of buying crap.

 

[Blowdown1]

Think about it. Right now market share of good saws is dominated by by Stihl and Husqvarna. Even quality saws like Jonsered, Dolmar, Efco and Echo aren't close, and they make good products. It boils down to a market shakeout as some saws shined and others started to fade. Poulan, McCulloch faded and fell out of favor, but ELux bought them up, kept them alive and defined a spot in the market as consumer saws and rebadge them for brands like Craftsman. They could just as easily have let them die an ignoble death and never bought them.

John Q Public doesn't know a good saw from a bad saw usually and they shop a name they know and a price they like. Plus, everything is based on price points these days. Think about the cost of a consumer saw today and what you paid years ago. Probably not much difference. Pretty amazing how cheaply you can still get a saw, although it may not be on par with the quality of years back. But still, people want cheap tools.

I think it is kind of silly to lament the decline of some of these names. It wasn't due to ELux buying them. Their decline likely drove them to be acquired and redefined as a niche brand and is the only thing that kept them from dissappearing totally.

 

[Mange]

I do not think the E-lux modell holds forever. I think that if Husqvarna and Jonsered + all the others were independant, the competision would be higher, and as consumer, that will be us we would benefit. There is 3 acters instead of 23, that can not be better.

I for one will not by a Husky/Jonny, I will look at other brands, like Dolmar and what was the name of that white and orange........

Ah, never mind.

 

[DanMan1]

Someone has to play the 'other side' and I guess it might as well be me.

I ask everyone to take a deep breath, lean back, make a drink( drink it ASAP!), relax, and ponder.

Does everyone here drive Porche cars? Why not? Why not?...Why not?!
Why not? Think about it.

I mean let's be real. A Chevy or Ford or whatever is the same as a Poulan. Why did you cheap out with the Chevy??? Might as well write on a computer car forum to 'throw it in the trash' at the first sign of trouble, as people write here on this forum about lower priced saws.

You guys are the few.

To most people, a saw is a hand tool. A Hand tool.
$400-$500 is a pretty pricy hand tool to alot of guys. These guys may be young with young kids, bills coming out their butts, etc..who would love a premium saw but don't have the money for a Porche/Sthil.

Does everyone have the best $400-$500 drill?
Does everyone have the best $400-$500 circular saw?
Does everyone have the best $400-$500 sawsall?
Does everyone have the best $400-$500 sander?
Does everyone have the best air compressor?

Do you buy a new car with the intent that it will be with you for the next 30 years???
Why not??

Someone made the comment about E-Lux wanting to hide the fact they make Poulan.

Beleive me about one thing. E-lux and any company is only together to turn a profit. The only reason the build higher quality is if they think it will pay-back. It Poulan profits are good, trust me.. The people of Elux are proud of Poulan...not embarrased.

 

[Justin Garrison]

The problem is that chevys and fords will last as long and are as good as a porsche, Ford makes that new Gt40 that costs way more money than any porsche. Good pro saws well maintained will last around 1000hrs. Poulan actually says good for 50-100hrs or something stupid like that by buying a stihl you are not buying a poulan that is more plush with better looks and antivibe and faster revving engine, like chevy vs porsche. You are buying a hell of a saw that will last longer. Alothogh there is definitly a place for cheap saws.

 

[Blowdown1]

As good as a Porsche? Please. The new GT40 doesn't even officially exist yet. When it does it is supposed to be under $150K. The Carrera GT is $440K. Several 911 models are over $150K. And they exist. And they are some of the highest-performance vehicles ever made.

Chevy? OK, a vette is a nice ride. Not even in the same league as a high-end Porsche. Trying to say the difference between a Chevy and a Porsche is aesthetics is a joke. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but get real. And that is DanMan's point; high-performance, high-cost products compared to consumer-oriented products.

Besides, address his other points where he brings up other tools. Most people doing some home DIY aren't gonna drop the coin for contractor quality tools. They are gonna buy Craftsman, B&D, etc. And you know what? They will be happy, just like the guys with the Fords and Chevys. But that doesn't mean they'll have comparable products, either the tools or the cars.

 

[Marco]

There is a place for everything, in a thread here I seen where a fellow charged $60 per hour to repair stuff. Does this have a bearing on what people buy? Run her til she pukes and go get a new one is the attitude. Lots of things to think about here. Is it worth paying twice as much for a pair of shoes to only have them last 3 months longer. Should you buy the best mower only to spend $40 every spring to have the service special, when for $100 you can buy a whole new mower every three years and just add oil and not worry about it? $100 mowers seam to have the least problems with bent cranks, thing about it. I know of two Poulan Pro 295's that have cut Lord now's how many cords of pulp wood. The owner of these two has a 55 Husky he had before them, hmmm. He likes them and yes they have not been trouble free. I asked him if he was satisfied, he said he was. I get him going and don't give him grief. I have seen Stihls and Huskies break, I have fixed them. They all will break and there are some people in this world who would wreck an anvil. If Stihls and Huskies are so great why is it feasable for the after market crowd to make parts like cylinders, pistons, ignition modules, etc.? Ever think that people don't see the flaws of the brand they are in love with? New a Ford guy that thaught my little Buick was junk because it was GM, I drove that car to his funeral. I have a 3000 Poulan I will run against your 026's, 028's, and 029's and it will still be there. I have put a cylinder on it, I use it it wears I fix it. Who makes cylinder besides Mahle? Had an 028 a guy braught in that he had purchased on an estate rummage sale, looked nice but it had a junk cylinder but he was in luck I knew a Stihl dealer that had one with a crank out...... Don't rib a Poulan owner, chances are they make more money then you. Good service means as much as what you sell. When a friend of mine was charged $15 and had his old XL-12 declared junk by a Stihl/Husky dealer (different then the one above) because they didn't feel like putting a new fuel line on it, you wonder where people get these ideas to run it and chuck it? I put a new line in it ran fine. So if a Pro saw dealer can't fix something why buy a pro saw if you don't need it?

 

[Lawn Masters]

I think those old Homie XL saws just keep on going. the ultimate homeowner saw.

 

[Mange]

As good as a Porsche? Please. The new GT40 doesn't even officially exist yet. When it does it is supposed to be under $150K. The Carrera GT is $440K. Several 911 models are over $150K. And they exist. And they are some of the highest-performance vehicles ever made.

Chevy? OK, a vette is a nice ride. Not even in the same league as a high-end Porsche. Trying to say the difference between a Chevy and a Porsche is aesthetics is a joke. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but get real. And that is DanMan's point; high-performance, high-cost products compared to consumer-oriented products.

Besides, address his other points where he brings up other tools. Most people doing some home DIY aren't gonna drop the coin for contractor quality tools. They are gonna buy Craftsman, B&D, etc. And you know what? They will be happy, just like the guys with the Fords and Chevys. But that doesn't mean they'll have comparable products, either the tools or the cars.

I just got curios, what brands do you have? what brands do you consider worth all the money they charge? How much can you load that fine, expensive, fast, good looking car? Can you even fit a saw in it? if not why bother looking for a expensive saw, You still have to set the saw on the sidewalk when you drive home in the fancy car.

 

[Lawn Masters]

Thus the reason I like trucks.

 

[ozflea]

Well I'll be darned, I didn't know E-lux owned Mukaluk

Geez, why sell products like Jonsered and husky and then sell junk like Poulan and Mukaluk

Well its a small world after all Lobo and i think that the 2 brand names you also mentioned are owned by E-Lux Damm.

Mc Bob

 

[geofore]

Not so fast

Cuz there are cheap a$$ folks out there that determine every purchase by how little it costs as opposed to how well it works.

The homeowner saws are bought more often than not by the DIY guy who only needs to last long enough to cut up one or two trees or a few branches, then the saw sits in the garage with fuel in it until he needs it again for the once a year firewood duty it does. He would have been better off with an electric saw but it needs an extention cord to go with it, an expense he can do without, though the saw would last him for years and never quit because it had bad gas left in it. His needs are met with a saw that is garrenteed to run 40 hours because that is all the more hours he will put on the saw in a year and it's not likely he'll do much maintenence on the saw. It's doubtful he ever learns to sharpen a chain. The guy that knows how to do the MATH does the price of the saw over the time it will be used and if it works he buys a better saw. By the time he gets to where he has a need for/uses the more expensive saw he's now looking at the MATH for time saved using a ported saw vs. stock saw, long ago he left the realm of the homeowner saws behind. Cheap today does not mean cheaper over the long haul. MR. CHEAP doesn't know how to/doesn't need to do math, he is the only today matters kind of guy and cheap is good for him, it gives him that warm fuzzy feeling inside (I got away cheap) until the saw quits (no maintenence, hours of cuttting with a dull chain) and he goes into a rage about how he now has to buy another cheap saw to replace the cheap one he bought the first time around to save money. How much saw does he really need for once a year/one job saw? Every day use saws use another kind of math that Mr. Cheap knows nothing about. He lives in the fuzzy glow he got from the money he saved today and thinks not of the money it'll cost him to saw tomorrow. Rant over, I've got to go have a talk with my saws now.

 

[WRW]

That 50 hour guarantee is an EPA figure. It has nothing to do with how long a saw will last.

For the homeowner that will use the saw a few times a year and let it sit with fuel in it...why pay $500 for a saw that will lean out from a clogged carb and toast the cylinder when they could do the same amount of work a lot cheaper?

For the homeowner that buys the homeowner version of a high end saw, if they take proper care of it, it should last about as long as a professional version...it just would be less likely to be rebuilt. For the homeowner, that might be longer than the time that parts would be available anyway. I have one that has cut well over 100 cords of firewood and is still going strong. At 4-6 cords a year, how long would that last the occasional firewood cutter? Figured in actual wood cut, that saw cost less than $2.50/cord and the cost goes down each time I use it.

 

[VTMechEng]

Just rememeber guys, Chrysler and Mercedes are now one company...Nissan and Lexus...etc. The question to really ask is why not span the market instead of keeping with one small piece of it? Having different companies to do this makes a lot of sence too because we can sit here, say Poulan is crap and Huskvarna's are great while homeowners think why pay for a Huskvarna when a Poulan will do the 2 hours of work I need out of it. My dad got a Poulan for his cottage, I didn't know till after he got it btw, and it really is all he needs. Oh, and no he couldn't get an electric because in the woods there is no where to plug a saw in.

 

[canguy21]

My understanding is E-lux owns mukaluk only in Europe. That link does not mention North America because the product (I am being polite here) we see is made in Asia by Jen Shing whoever she is.
Apparently, some dealers here have rebadged saws from McCulloch in Italy. I don't remember the brand name.

 

[Lobo]

The original Troy-Bilt company out of Troy N-Y years ago used to build great equipment and had acquired an enviable reputation for certain lines, in 1999 or 2000 or 2001 they went belly up and the rights to the name was purchased by MTD. MTD are well known for building minimal quality or worst quality equipment and several badges or formerly reputable brand names, they now have Troy-Bilt chainsaws, are they making these themselves? Did they buy Homelite or some other poor company such as the current Mukaluc ? Are they getting these made for them with the Troy-Bilt name ? If that is the case who is manufacturing these for them ?

Does anyone know the story behind this ?

http://www.troybilt.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category2_10001_14102_17685_17680_17680_-1

My original point has been missed, which was that a very reputable name ''Troy-Bilt'' renowned for the best quality and durability in certain lines of equipment is now being put on lesser quality products. Past customers who purchased quality Troy-Bilt products and were highly pleased and satisfied with them but not aware of Trpy-Bilt's demise will in away be mislead by the name in buying less saw than they expected/anticipated.

 

[DarioMO]

That is probably one of the major reasons why they were purchased/acquired in the first place. Capitalize on a well established name.

 

[Mange]

My understanding is E-lux owns mukaluk only in Europe. That link does not mention North America because the product (I am being polite here) we see is made in Asia by Jen Shing whoever she is.
Apparently, some dealers here have rebadged saws from McCulloch in Italy. I don't remember the brand name.

It started with sales rights and partnerchip and they built parts for eachother.
E-lux now owns the brand and the factory's was bought with the brand, all of them, Not just italy.
This is what E-luks claims, and has stated cristal clear to me over phone.

I would like to see something else first to change my mind.
I see no reason for E-lux to lie about this.

 

[Blowdown1]

I just got curios, what brands do you have? what brands do you consider worth all the money they charge? How much can you load that fine, expensive, fast, good looking car? Can you even fit a saw in it? if not why bother looking for a expensive saw, You still have to set the saw on the sidewalk when you drive home in the fancy car.

Mange, what is your point? When toting my saw anywhere I drive a POS old former county Dodge pickup. I wish I could afford to throw away money on a totally impractical car like a GT40 or Porsche. But I don't. I drive a Honda and a Subaru usually.

I'm not the one who made the car analogy. And it doesn't matter anyway, because the point of it (whether Ford, Chevy or Porshce) was high-end vs. more real world affordable products. So where are you going with this?

As for your earlier issue of more competition is better; you are right. But the markets are essentially efficient. Some brands will rise above others. Of the top-quality saws, ELux only owns two; Husqvarna and Jonsered. Stihl, as I said is the other biggie, but as I pointed out, Dolmar, Efco, Echo are only fringe players. The competition is out there, but the orange saws still vastly dominate the market. So all of this whining about ELux is really pointless.

VTeng (and others) have reiterated my point; ELux is differentiating their brand holdings to serve different markets. And that is why Husky won't be crap in 10 years. That is their quality saw and they can meet the homeowner needs with "disposable" Poulans. Pretty smart if you think about it. Husky doesn't suffer from the "their saws suck" mentality after joe-homeowner runs straight gas through it, puts bar oil and mix in the wrong tanks, cuts till the chain smokes from not sharpening/maintaining.