Velocity split tail system?

[OTG BOSTON]

do whatever you want guy!

Well, I dont plan on doing any footlocking or any SRT till I have body thrusting down pat and all the knots associated with that, but I dont like the idea of having to un-tie and re-tie with the traditional system. I didnt think split tail was advanced though.

I understand that and agree completely, however, using the split tail and the traditional system, i would be tying the exact same knots, so I guess im failing to see why you guys are saying to not use a split tail right away, its the exact same thing except for using a split tail as your friction hitch instead of the last 4ft or so of your climbing line.....right, or am I totally missing something?

I'm just giving you the best advice I can. So let me ask you a couple of questions: Do you want to know all the knots associated with bodythrusting and have them down pat? (like you say in the first post I highlighted here?) or do you want to skip all that?

 

[eagleknight97]

Whatever do what you want.

Can anyone tell me the knot we use most, everday, multiple times.

If you said Bowline you are correct.

EK97, You don't just use the end of your climbing line, you have to tie in and leave a tail. If you just use the end of the climbing line it can go where it wants and then you are stuck. And have to climb around again. By not using a split tail and learning the correct way to tie in(which you apparently have not), you will get a better understanding of how things operate. Don't argue :newbie: ,There is a way to learn how to do this. You have to start with the simplest techniques and advance from there. You didn't start reading with Shakespeare did you? Nope I am williing to bet it was Cookie Monster and Big Bird like the rest of us

I know a bowline but when I worked with a village forester for 2 summers, he never once used a bowline. As far as climbing went, it was always a Blakes or a Prusik. Im not saying I shouldnt start simple, cuz I completely agree with that, I guess I just didnt realize there was that much of a difference between body thrusting with a split than body thrusting without. Ive only body thrusted with a split tail so I figured that was a very beginner way to do things.

 

[eagleknight97]

I'm just giving you the best advice I can. So let me ask you a couple of questions: Do you want to know all the knots associated with bodythrusting and have them down pat? (like you say in the first post I highlighted here?) or do you want to skip all that?

I dont want to skip anything really, and like I said in one of my previous posts, I want body thrusting down before I even try anything else. I failed to see the difference between body thrusting with a split tail and without, but I have been told numerous times there is a big difference, so I will have to take that advice.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

I know a bowline but when I worked with a village forester for 2 summers, he never once used a bowline. As far as climbing went, it was always a Blakes or a Prusik. Im not saying I shouldnt start simple, cuz I completely agree with that, I guess I just didnt realize there was that much of a difference between body thrusting with a split than body thrusting without. Ive only body thrusted with a split tail so I figured that was a very beginner way to do things.

:bang: :bang: :bang: The bowline would be the knot used to anchor the climbing line to your saddle. Leave the tail of the bowline long to tie your fig 8 friction hitch and another fig8.

Thats all you're getting out of me, call PUclimber and get some hands on instruction.............and good luck

 

[eagleknight97]

:bang: :bang: :bang: The bowline would be the knot used to anchor the climbing line to your saddle. Leave the tail of the bowline long to tie your fig 8 friction hitch and another fig8.

Thats all you're getting out of me, call PUclimber and get some hands on instruction.............and good luck

LOL, large amount of dumbassness on my part there......I read bowline but thought you meant tautline.......:newbie: many apologies on my part for this, I havent made myself look very smart or willing to accept advice

 

[PUclimber]

Well here it goes as far as the split tail you're right it is the same knots and stuff. Well the bowline is important since it can be untied easily after schocking it since it doesn't seem to bind up as much as others. For my attachment knot to my saddle I prefer tying the anchor hitch. I think it's much smoother or cleaner but as far as the split tail you'll want to learn both ways since you never know what may happen. You may forget your split tail at a previous job or maybe you may cut it and this way you can tie in using the left over tail after tying your anchor hitch to tie your blakes hitch. The figure 8 knot that was brought up previously doesn't need to be tied twice you only need it has a stopper knot on the end of the tail. Some suggest putting one in the bridge in case of an aerial rescue is in need and the bridge needs to be cut that way you know where to cut. If using a split tail that is something other than the climb line then it should be easily distinguished. The basics are those things that you can do with minimal gear though in case you do forget something and you will also need this method to double crotch unless you carry two split tails with you. I think I covered it but if I'm missing something let me know.

 

[Treeman587]

LOL, large amount of dumbassness on my part there......I read bowline but thought you meant tautline.......:newbie: many apologies on my part for this, I havent made myself look very smart or willing to accept advice

Ah, grasshoppa, Humbleness is your first large step.

 

[NickfromWI]

You are on the right track, eagleknight. If you are proficient at using the blakes, it doesn't matter if you can tie/use a bowline.

You don't need to use a bowline until you start rigging, really.

love
nick

 

[DonnyO]

You'll need to be able to tie those knots in your sleep, thats why......

I've seen PUclimber offer to help you out in person a number of times, there is only so much you can learn from the computer, you should get with this guy. IMHO you need a mentor in this biz, so go find one! (like Donny is to me!)

Thanks G, not makin' too many friends around here.............:bang:

 

[Magnum783]

LOL, large amount of dumbassness on my part there......I read bowline but thought you meant tautline.......:newbie: many apologies on my part for this, I havent made myself look very smart or willing to accept advice

Look I am GI every day of the week and I have supervisory powers over ten troops. If any one of my troops were as ingnrant about listening to as many smart people like Donny, OTG and the others that have told you to try the traditional standard system. They would be pushing concrete so long there arms would burst into flames. So here the long in the short of it. Learn the traditonal way, tie all the knots, and practice. They progress from there. No one yet to my knowledge has told you, you had to climb on it for a certain ammount of time so try just one day for pete's sake. Quit being a tool bag and follow what those who are older than wiser than you have told you to do!!!!

People who have the attitude like your seems to be just prove my point about officer ( they have collage degrees too) they just think they are smarter than the rest of us ground pounders. Sorry to those who have a degree and have yet retained some ammount of common sense.

Props to OTG and Donny and the rest of you guys. Forget this guy, let him try his beloved split tail and never learn the old fashion way. It is his life not ours.
Jared

 

[eagleknight97]

Look I am GI every day of the week and I have supervisory powers over ten troops. If any one of my troops were as ingnrant about listening to as many smart people like Donny, OTG and the others that have told you to try the traditional standard system. They would be pushing concrete so long there arms would burst into flames. So here the long in the short of it. Learn the traditonal way, tie all the knots, and practice. They progress from there. No one yet to my knowledge has told you, you had to climb on it for a certain ammount of time so try just one day for pete's sake. Quit being a tool bag and follow what those who are older than wiser than you have told you to do!!!!

People who have the attitude like your seems to be just prove my point about officer ( they have collage degrees too) they just think they are smarter than the rest of us ground pounders. Sorry to those who have a degree and have yet retained some ammount of common sense.

Props to OTG and Donny and the rest of you guys. Forget this guy, let him try his beloved split tail and never learn the old fashion way. It is his life not ours.
Jared

Perhaps you didnt read what you quoted me saying in your post???

 

[DonnyO]

Ah, grasshoppa, Humbleness is your first large step.

Look I am GI every day of the week and I have supervisory powers over ten troops. If any one of my troops were as ingnrant about listening to as many smart people like Donny, OTG and the others that have told you to try the traditional standard system. They would be pushing concrete so long there arms would burst into flames. So here the long in the short of it. Learn the traditonal way, tie all the knots, and practice. They progress from there. No one yet to my knowledge has told you, you had to climb on it for a certain ammount of time so try just one day for pete's sake. Quit being a tool bag and follow what those who are older than wiser than you have told you to do!!!!

People who have the attitude like your seems to be just prove my point about officer ( they have collage degrees too) they just think they are smarter than the rest of us ground pounders. Sorry to those who have a degree and have yet retained some ammount of common sense.

Props to OTG and Donny and the rest of you guys. Forget this guy, let him try his beloved split tail and never learn the old fashion way. It is his life not ours.
Jared

This is what you can expect when you graduate. Having a college degree is going to put alot of people off (mostly good, old school tree guys). So learn early how to take advice, and remain humble, and keep your mouth shut long enough to let some one WANT to teach you. You're not entitled to anything in this profession, you earn it.

 

[beowulf343]

Starting with the basics is an excellent idea. It makes you much more versatile. And besides, some of the basic techniques i learned, i still use to this day. They are the basics because they have proven to be simple and guaranteed to work.

 

[moray]

people getting huffy

I understand that and agree completely, however, using the split tail and the traditional system, i would be tying the exact same knots, so I guess im failing to see why you guys are saying to not use a split tail right away, its the exact same thing except for using a split tail as your friction hitch instead of the last 4ft or so of your climbing line.....right, or am I totally missing something?

Eagleknight, for what it's worth, I reluctantly enter this fray on your side. Certainly there is no harm in trying the old-fashioned way for a couple of climbs. But I quickly gave it up. Now use a tenex 2-eye split tail. Never tie a Blake's. However, I have been in a tree with a friend, passing hardware and ropes back and forth for some project or other, and suddenly found myself with one carabiner and no split tail. It was nice at the point to remember how to tie an attachment knot (double fisherman's) and then tie a Blake's with the tail. So you do need to know how to rig up an old-fashioned system, but there is little point in spending much time with it IMHO. You are certainly right that there is technically very little difference between the two systems.

 

[newguy18]

you probably wont agree

i use rope i buy from lowes and i perfer the tautline traditional method of climbing. i tried the blakes and i thought it bit to hard on the rope.i also found that the prusik loop tied with a traditional prusik loop as a split tail wroked fine.it can also double as a large flipline.bill howe husky 51 husky 141 little homelite:angry2: :deadhorse: :greenchainsaw: