Very Large Oak To Fell

[solvent]

We have a 200+ year old oak that has contracted Armillaria mellea on our watch. The DBH is over 6'. It's a very sad sight to see it so sick. A certified arborist has recommended removing it immediately, due to the 50%+ root compromise. Oddly, the city arborist inspector came to look it over & recommended we call the gas company as he said it might be being poisoned from an underground gas line leak. Never heard that one.. Nonetheless, we're looking to remove it.

We've received 5 different quotes from several reputable vendors--$3000 to $6000. One company said the only safe way to remove it is from a cherry picker, stating that hand rigging will result in damage to the ground area plants (of which there are few) and the nearby house which is about 20 feet away. Other tree specialists said that's nonsense & rigging it is completely safe. They all are bonded, w/ worker's comp, insurance & impeccable references.

There are a few branches that lean over two separate houses. The largest branch--about 12-15" in diameter--leans over ours.

So the cherrypicker company charges more, but what do you all think of the safety concerns for those who'd be rigging from the ground?

Here's a few pictures from last spring. This summer the tree had all dead leaves, where others on the street are completely green.

 

[treeseer]

the 50%+ root compromise.

is that circumference?

got a picture of the shrooms?

Yes gas leaks can kill trees.

 

[solvent]

Hi, Treeser

Thanks for your reply. Not sure if circumference, but that % was allegedly arrived at by the arborist digging around the tree base. The veracity of the arborist's claim doesn't seem questionable to me considering we've seen the fungus, and the tree has been in rapid decline because of several contributing reasons. I highly doubt gas has anything to do with it, and I'm checking w/ the local utility.

The doubt engendered by tree company claiming exclusive safety with sky machinery only does seem to warrant further query, which is why I'm asking here. Said company said we're sure to receive damage to the house if we don't use a cherrypicker to remove the tree. Is there any substantive truth to that?

 

[ckthorp]

Said company said we're sure to receive damage to the house if we don't use a cherrypicker to remove the tree. Is there any substantive truth to that?

I'm not a professional, but it really sounds like the one company advocating for a bucket truck has a hammer and everything is looking like a nail, if you know what I mean. I'll bet business is slow and they have spare time on their bucket truck and are trying to scare you into signing up.

 

[tomtrees58]

I'm not a professional, but it really sounds like the one company advocating for a bucket truck has a hammer and everything is looking like a nail, if you know what I mean. I'll bet business is slow and they have spare time on their bucket truck and are trying to scare you into signing up.

yep call and arborist // climber its a small removal tom trees

 

[Highclimber OR]

I must say I am a removal specialist and that tree does not need a bucket or anything of the sort. A small experienced company like mine would carefully take that apart in little pieces and lower the necessary limbs on to the roof, same with the wood. A bucket just happens to be easier and also more expensive. I will just say that a seasoned residential removal artist and a good crew could likely have that most of the way down in one day. Keep in mind that this is an oak and is not only very stable but it is also heavy and will require some extreme skill. So perhaps the bucket or a crane would make you feel better, but just make sure who ever's insurance is valid and enough versus potential damage and check credentials.

 

[masiman]

Very nice tree, a shame it is not doing well.

How old is that driveway? I'm surprised it did not have problems sooner given how tight that space is.

Newb questions for all that answered before:

Those power lines don't worry you for climbing?
What would you do to avoid the power lines when working on the branches the lines go through?

Thanks.

 

[ckthorp]

Those power lines don't worry you for climbing?
What would you do to avoid the power lines when working on the branches the lines go through?

Thanks.

I'm not seeing any powerlines, except behind the house. In front, there are only cable TV and phone drops.

 

[S Mc]

Several Armillaria species are aggressive primary pathogens and A. mellea is one of the two most virulent of these.

With that said, this disease generally becomes an issue on stressed or weakened trees but you certainly could say any street tree, or one of a large species confined in a small yard would qualify as stressed.

General symptoms of "classic" Armillaria demise in California live oak trees is a gradual receding of tips with adventitious growth along the trunk/stems. One of the reasons I am belaboring why this tree succumbed to armillaria is to isolate or enumerate as many reasons for the stress as possible and to understand their consequence so that mistakes, if avoidable, are not made in future situations. And to also realize that trees can be killed or severly damaged by gas leaks; both above and below ground. I would certainly want to rule that possibility out. A gas leak below ground next to my house is not a circumstance that would allow me to sleep well. (The fact that the city arborist even mentioned it raises my eyebrows...I would have been on the phone to the utility company before he had driven off.) Be sure to pursue this to your complete satisfaction.

The initial arborist's root collar excavation noted 50% of the roots compromised. But did this mean the roots were dead or had visible signs of the disease, or what? Some of this information may be relevant to the company that takes the tree down.

In looking at this tree, it appeared to me suitable for rigging. I consulted my expert and he agrees. Realizing these pictures are from last year but assuming nothing has changed in the landscape or the tree has become somehow structurally compromised that does not show in these photos, the tree should have sufficient strength to allow rigging.

However, I would strongly urge you to go with whom you are comfortable...whatever their price.

Sylvia

 

[Ed Roland]

I am curious how the diagnosing arborist came to his conclusion. Did he observe rhizomorphs be-tween the bark and the wood, clusters of mushrooms @ the base, serological test? Tree is deep, perhaps, exposing the root crown using an air-spade allows for easy diagnosis of Armillaria or other root problems. You are made of $ right?

"Oddly, the city arborist inspector came to look it over & recommended we call the gas company as he said it might be being poisoned from an underground gas line leak." Is he/she suggesting the cause of decline is something other than Armillaria or a contributing stress?

"Its high destructiveness comes from the fact that, unlike most parasites, it doesn't need to moderate its growth in order to avoid killing its host, since it will continue to thrive on the dead material." wikopedia
Replant with species that are suitable to your area, of course, and resistant to Armillaria such as; crabapples, ginko, magnolia, sweet gum, incense cedar and pines.

 

[Nailsbeats]

That there is nothing but a big, fun, rigging job. Don't worry about the guys rigging it, inexperienced cats tend to stay away from a job like this. The tree doesn't look very tall. Everything will come down on a rope. You could put up two climbers and alternate cuts or one climber and some money cuts on the GRCS. I am gritting my teeth just looking at that thing, looks like a good job to get.

 

[ropensaddle]

Bucket is easier but should not be much higher than a climber.
I bid about the same as I did when climbing I just get done sooner is all.
As far as safety, I can almost climb anything my bucket can do with a few
extremely rotten exceptions. If the climber is seasoned insured and does
not have beer cans falling out of his truck and you feel he knows what he is doing go for it. I could climb that tree safely I would use my bucket because I have one and am getting light in my moccasins as a result but I have climbed thousands just like it or worse.

 

[wvlogger]

i would go with the saftey just me

 

[solvent]

Thanks for all the wonderful replies. I'll includes some good photos after we win the election.

We saw the certified arborist remove some of the bark, where there were sinuous lines running underneath--if that helps. I don't doubt it has the infection, some areas of the tree are affected by invasive insects already. I'll re-consult the report for the specific wording.

The arborist was pretty thorough in the gestalt explanation of all the contributing stresses for the tree. It didn't help that the neighbors recently added driveway, are constantly overwatering of their lawn (during a serious drought), to not mentioned the previous owners dumping pesticides and paving every inch of area on the sidewalk meridian--which we've removed. To give you an indication of the disposition of our dear neighbors, when we told them we might have to fall the tree they were happy, as it would not drop annoying leaves on their Lexus. They continue to slosh copious water on their bowling green.

We know oaks are sensitive, so we barely water our native drought-tolerant plants and we don't rake up the leaves which leave important nutrients and mulch behind. I've studied the issue some with friends who work for native plant nurseries.

We looked at replacement trees; sweetgum goes right for the old sewer lines out here and I've heard can be pretty invasive w/o a growth barrier. There's a law here you've got to replace an oak with an oak--but they never check, they are increasingly busy lately inspecting more and more trees which are dying from lack of water, insects or other climate related pathogens. Hmm.

Also, the gas company came--there's no smell and the suggestion was in my mind a ruse anyway--only to find, surprisingly enough, nothing.

I'm reassured to hear riggers can do the job. Does $3k sound reasonable? I was hoping we'd have some of the pieces on hand to dry for firewood.

Damn, it's a shame. Something that lives over 200 years old that is so beautiful, majestic, has given important cooling shade and grace to this house for 100 of it's years. Makes me appreciate life more.

 

[wvlogger]

Thanks for all the wonderful replies. I'll includes some good photos after we win the election.

We saw the certified arborist remove some of the bark, where there were sinuous lines running underneath--if that helps. I don't doubt it has the infection, some areas of the tree are affected by invasive insects already. I'll re-consult the report for the specific wording.

The arborist was pretty thorough in the gestalt explanation of all the contributing stresses for the tree. It didn't help that the neighbors recently added driveway, are constantly overwatering of their lawn (during a serious drought), to not mentioned the previous owners dumping pesticides and paving every inch of area on the sidewalk meridian--which we've removed. To give you an indication of the disposition of our dear neighbors, when we told them we might have to fall the tree they were happy, as it would not drop annoying leaves on their Lexus. They continue to slosh copious water on their bowling green.

We know oaks are sensitive, so we barely water our native drought-tolerant plants and we don't rake up the leaves which leave important nutrients and mulch behind. I've studied the issue some with friends who work for native plant nurseries.

We looked at replacement trees; sweetgum goes right for the old sewer lines out here and I've heard can be pretty invasive w/o a growth barrier. There's a law here you've got to replace an oak with an oak--but they never check, they are increasingly busy lately inspecting more and more trees which are dying from lack of water, insects or other climate related pathogens. Hmm.

Also, the gas company came--there's no smell and the suggestion was in my mind a ruse anyway--only to find, surprisingly enough, nothing.

I'm reassured to hear riggers can do the job. Does $3k sound reasonable? I was hoping we'd have some of the pieces on hand to dry for firewood.

Damn, it's a shame. Something that lives over 200 years old that is so beautiful, majestic, has given important cooling shade and grace to this house for 100 of it's years. Makes me appreciate life more.

3k sounds good to me better than 6k sorry about the tree but all good things must come to an end :bang:

 

[S Mc]

To give you an indication of the disposition of our dear neighbors, when we told them we might have to fall the tree they were happy, as it would not drop annoying leaves on their Lexus.

Ok, now we just spent some fun time thinking up really obnoxious replacement trees.

We looked at replacement trees; sweetgum goes right for the old sewer lines out here and I've heard can be pretty invasive w/o a growth barrier. There's a law here you've got to replace an oak with an oak--but they never check, they are increasingly busy lately inspecting more and more trees which are dying from lack of water, insects or other climate related pathogens. Hmm.

Seriously, though, it does sound like you are doing your homework. Picking an appropriate replacement to consider not only what you can provide but how your neighbor's habits might affect its wellfare are all important. Selecting a tree that is hardy and tolerant to many issues will be to your best advantage. I can't imagine the City would still require you to replace this oak with a susceptible species where Armillaria has been substantiated and that a variance would be possible.

I'm reassured to hear riggers can do the job. Does $3k sound reasonable? I was hoping we'd have some of the pieces on hand to dry for firewood.

Unless the quote already stated that they GOT to take the wood, the tree is yours and you should be able to call the shots on the salvageable wood. I understand oak firewood goes for a VERY high price in California so it has value. Make sure this is understood before you agree to anything...who gets the wood, how it is left (if you want it) and where (as that is a lot of wood to store or move). Maybe you just want some of the wood...whatever, just be sure everyone is on the same page prior to commencement of the job.

Just for instance, here we give the client the option to keep the wood or we can take it. If it is of low value, it may cost them for us to haul away; if of some value, we may take for free. High value, it can lower the price of the job.

It is a crying shame to lose a mature, beautiful tree that could have lasted many more years...if only the circumstances were better. But you certainly gave it a shot and appreciate its worth. So many don't.

Sylvia

 

[treeseer]

Death by driveway; drag. In some towns the permitting process would have called for an arborist's report, which may have specified root-friendly pavement.

Sinuous lines that looked like black shoestrings maybe?

Wikipedia aside, armillaria can be walled off in a healthy tree by cleaning the infection and replacing the soil.

In NC $3k would still be a bit high maybe, but CA is higher no doubt. Some of those limbs may make nice boards if you get a portable mill out there,

 

[Ed Roland]

Wikipedia aside, armillaria can be walled off in a healthy tree by cleaning the infection and replacing the soil.

Homeowner... try that. Clean the infection and replace the soil.

 

[S Mc]

Death by driveway; drag. In some towns the permitting process would have called for an arborist's report, which may have specified root-friendly pavement.

That's true. But was there a driveway there already? Would this then still have required a report or assessment?

Wikipedia aside, armillaria can be walled off in a healthy tree by cleaning the infection and replacing the soil.

As I am "up-to-my-ears" right now in other things, I didn't have time to research the exact information, but wasn't there a report showing that Armallaria cannot survive with oxygenizing (is that a word?) the soil or was that another disease? If I am understanding that correctly, injecting air (as in addressing compaction) would also assist? It would be nice to see pictures of the current tree status.

Homeowner... try that. Clean the infection and replace the soil.

I think efforts such as these are sometimes forestalled by the current trend in "hazard or risk assessment". Arborists are virtually forced to recommend immediate removal due to liability issues. Really frustrating.

Sylvia

 

[treeseer]

wasn't there a report showing that Armallaria cannot survive with oxygenizing (is that a word?) the soil or was that another disease?

Yes breaking the link from the decay to the soil can inhibit the decay, per anecdotal reports.

I think efforts such as these are sometimes forestalled by the current trend in "hazard or risk assessment". Arborists are virtually forced to recommend immediate removal due to liability issues.

Virtually forced? Is that like the virtual reality one experiences when wearing one of those head-encasing helmets?

There are no real reasons for defensive assessment, no need to avoid a systematic assessment.

O and would driveway replacement require a report? Yes in some jurisdictions.