Correction... That's the People Communist Republic of Taxachusettes! :biggrinbounce2:
Voglezang Performer Stove
- Thread starter sickle
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Correction... That's the People Communist Republic of Taxachusettes! :biggrinbounce2:
CrappieKeith
Addicted to ArboristSite
I do talk to folks living there and it seems that you have to get a permit for anything and everything including squatting on your own cammode...
We even had to get a special approval for the wood/gas furnaces we make....Massachusetts Gas Approval Number G3-0409-392
in no other state is this required.
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I do talk to folks living there and it seems that you have to get a permit for anything and everything including squatting on your own cammode...
We even had to get a special approval for the wood/gas furnaces we make....Massachusetts Gas Approval Number G3-0409-392
in no other state is this required.
Here's my shocked face... :-\
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
The permit is officially referred to as the "Title 5 Inspection"
I'm not joking.
CrappieKeith
Addicted to ArboristSite
You got to be sheeeeeeting!
huntindog1
ArboristSite Operative
I recently purchased the Voglezang Performer from Menards for $699.
Its working well. Took me a little time to figure out how to operate it. Wood has to be well season. Moisture in non-seasoned wood will cool the secondary burn. Start this stove top down method as there is lots more air coming in thru the secondary air tubes at the top so it starts quicker if you put some bigger stuff on bottom to raise the level to make a little kindling stack on top of the bottom logs, this gets the starter kindling up higher in the stove close to those secondary air tubes which there are 4 of them. The extra air up there in the top of the stove will heat your stove pipe quicker as the burn is much more intense up there. I have had the stove top temp at 900 while the flue was at 400, tells you the thing is burning smoke gases. This is my first high tech stove , I have used a wood furnace for many years and a Buck Saver stove for a couple years.
Its working well. Took me a little time to figure out how to operate it. Wood has to be well season. Moisture in non-seasoned wood will cool the secondary burn. Start this stove top down method as there is lots more air coming in thru the secondary air tubes at the top so it starts quicker if you put some bigger stuff on bottom to raise the level to make a little kindling stack on top of the bottom logs, this gets the starter kindling up higher in the stove close to those secondary air tubes which there are 4 of them. The extra air up there in the top of the stove will heat your stove pipe quicker as the burn is much more intense up there. I have had the stove top temp at 900 while the flue was at 400, tells you the thing is burning smoke gases. This is my first high tech stove , I have used a wood furnace for many years and a Buck Saver stove for a couple years.
I dont have a dog in this fight but so far in regards to FIRSTHAND accounts it seems as though the voglezang is a good stove for the price. Does anyone have any negative firsthand experiences, or are all the negatives "I heard this" or "I heard that"?
Well, I'm a rep and biased but i'll jump in nonetheless.
Vogelzang is made is China if that matters to you. In order for anything heavy made in China to stay competitive you have to lighten up the unit to reduce your shipping costs. A wood stove is heavy so you figure it out...
A standard container of 45,000 Lbs worth of goods will cost you about $4,000 + for trans ocean shipping to the west coast (depending on the season it may be much higher). Then you have to ship it from the West Coast to Vogelzan Michigan. Then further shipping from their warehouse to the store. Not to mention, custom, duties, brokerage etc...
At the end of the day something has to be sacrificed to sell this stove for $700.
So when shopping look at the following. Plate steel thickness, baffle material, how the handle is designed (bent rod is not a good design), whether you have to assemble the whole thing at home or pre-assembled for you.
The Vogelzang Performer is pretty much a copy of the Century FW2700 (both have the same cu. ft. fire box, ). We claim 65,000 BTU, however VZ claim and incredible 120,000 BTU!!! With all due respect, the only way to squeeze 120,000 BTU out of 2 cu. ft fire box is to remove the bricks, burn tubes & baffle then cram bio bricks soaked with gasoline into the firebox. Stand back and watch the stove melt!.
If you're looking for a North American made stove at Menards why not look at the Century or Drolet Brands. We make both our Century brand is designed to compete against Chinese offering: Better Warranty and quality.
Vogelzang is made is China if that matters to you. In order for anything heavy made in China to stay competitive you have to lighten up the unit to reduce your shipping costs. A wood stove is heavy so you figure it out...
A standard container of 45,000 Lbs worth of goods will cost you about $4,000 + for trans ocean shipping to the west coast (depending on the season it may be much higher). Then you have to ship it from the West Coast to Vogelzan Michigan. Then further shipping from their warehouse to the store. Not to mention, custom, duties, brokerage etc...
At the end of the day something has to be sacrificed to sell this stove for $700.
So when shopping look at the following. Plate steel thickness, baffle material, how the handle is designed (bent rod is not a good design), whether you have to assemble the whole thing at home or pre-assembled for you.
The Vogelzang Performer is pretty much a copy of the Century FW2700 (both have the same cu. ft. fire box, ). We claim 65,000 BTU, however VZ claim and incredible 120,000 BTU!!! With all due respect, the only way to squeeze 120,000 BTU out of 2 cu. ft fire box is to remove the bricks, burn tubes & baffle then cram bio bricks soaked with gasoline into the firebox. Stand back and watch the stove melt!.
If you're looking for a North American made stove at Menards why not look at the Century or Drolet Brands. We make both our Century brand is designed to compete against Chinese offering: Better Warranty and quality.
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Locust Cutter
Sawing for Sanity
Adam, how's the fit and finish? That's the complaint I've heard - they don't work as an airtight because they don't fit together well. I don't have any personal experience.
I've considered one of their boxwood stoves to heat my garage/shop. I mean, who expects a boxwood stove to be airtight?
Oh, I dunno. I think they look fine, myself. They sure aren't a Jotul, but then, they don't carry a Jotul price tag!
Oh, sickle, you can ignore Crappie. That sthick is his idea of selling Yukon wood furnaces. :monkey: He's a rep.
I have one of the smaller Vogelzang box wood stoves in my barn. I haven't installed it yet, but we used to use it outside of my Father's garage when we were working up wood. It throws good heat for it's size when you have it damped right. I over-fired it once or twice, (didn't realize it until later) and popped out a lot of the sealant around the seams. Even before I over-fired it, it spilled a decent amount of smoke around the seams, but for a barn/workshop/hunting cabin, it would be fine. I would probably get the next size up as it holds a fire better and is supposed to be a bit easier to control/less finicky, but I still enjoy it for what it is, given the price point. I would not buy one of the boxwood stoves for a house though. I have seen two of their more commercial looking stoves (not sure what to call them) and they seemed to be good, no-frills economical stoves that would be good in a home. That-said, I did go with A P.E. T6 stove and will likely be adding either a 2nd stove in a VC or Jotul catalytic, or an OWB as my old farmhouse is not exactly setup for an indoor wood furnace. Best regards.
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huntindog1
ArboristSite Operative
Fyrebug,
How did they get an exact copy of the Century Stove?
In my situation I am burning wood to save money. I was able to get this stove at a good price plus get a 10 % tax break . It really came down to money for me as I could afford it.
Both Century and Voglezang stoves use the same thickness steel 3/16ths.
The fire box these days in the high tech stoves are made of fire brick with a ceramic baffle plate with a ceramic blanket for insulation. So both stoves use firebricks for the exposed fire part of the stove.
I think both stoves will hold up fine.
The Century FW2700 is listed as 310lbs.
The Voglezang is listed as 356lbs.
How did they get an exact copy of the Century Stove?
In my situation I am burning wood to save money. I was able to get this stove at a good price plus get a 10 % tax break . It really came down to money for me as I could afford it.
Both Century and Voglezang stoves use the same thickness steel 3/16ths.
The fire box these days in the high tech stoves are made of fire brick with a ceramic baffle plate with a ceramic blanket for insulation. So both stoves use firebricks for the exposed fire part of the stove.
I think both stoves will hold up fine.
The Century FW2700 is listed as 310lbs.
The Voglezang is listed as 356lbs.
Century is a popular line to copy (not exact duplicates since that would not be legal) because they are easy to MFG & assemble and have great performance. There is to my knowledge at least 5 MFG's whose products looks suspiciously like the Century (esp. Chinese products)
I did not say Vogelzang is a bad stove or that it will not throw heat. Beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder. If pricing trumps fit, finish, warranty & quality in how the customer buys, so be it. But like anything else in life, better be educated since this is your money.
Frankly as a rule I never speak against a competitors product since I sincerely believe there aren't many 'bad' stoves out there. Even VZ is not a 'bad' stove. However, I am shocked in how such a company makes such performance claims for a smallish stove and get away with it. We make a 3.4 Cu ft firebox stove and we dont claim anywhere near this BTU. Everything about this stove spec's and performances is dubious IMHO.
huntindog1
ArboristSite Operative
Fyrebug,
I did some research on the 2 stoves and the Voglezang Performer gets more btu's than the Century FW2700 because the Performer has 4 secondary air tubes and the Century only has 3. With more air getting into the box that would explain the higher BTU Max Rating. As I look at my 4 air tubes the back one has the smallest holes drilled then as the other 3 tubes coming closer to the front the holes in each tubes progressively get larger with the secondary air tube closest to the front has the largest holes and they are space in all all the tubes like 1/4" apart very close and lots of them.
Looks like Century is made in canada. The Performer is made in China but designed in Michigan. I have a call into the designer if he calls me back.
I did some research on the 2 stoves and the Voglezang Performer gets more btu's than the Century FW2700 because the Performer has 4 secondary air tubes and the Century only has 3. With more air getting into the box that would explain the higher BTU Max Rating. As I look at my 4 air tubes the back one has the smallest holes drilled then as the other 3 tubes coming closer to the front the holes in each tubes progressively get larger with the secondary air tube closest to the front has the largest holes and they are space in all all the tubes like 1/4" apart very close and lots of them.
Looks like Century is made in canada. The Performer is made in China but designed in Michigan. I have a call into the designer if he calls me back.
Sorry to disappoint you but Keith from Yukon and the guys at Kuuma will back me up on this...
Your BTU output is a function of 2 main ingredients: The quantity and quality of your fuel. One BTU is the amount of heat energy needed to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree F. 1 match stick equals about 1 BTU. The humidity level in the wood will greatly affect your BTU output.
For the sake of this argument we'll say standard mixed cordwood per pound is worth about 7,200 BTU at 15% humidity level. Which means in order to attain 120,000 BTU on high fire you will need almost 17 lbs.
If you can cram 17 Lbs of standard cordwood into a 2 cu ft area my hats off to you. Keep in mind that 2 cu ft likely includes the space where the tube are, so in reality you are more at 1.7. Some MFG state their Cu ft without the bricks which would bring you down even more. If your talking to them it may be worthwhile to ask them. I'm curious as well.
Notice that oxygen plays no role in your BTU. The wood will have latent BTU value whether its burning or just sitting there in a vacuum. More Oxygen will make the wood burn faster and not very efficiently (ie it will stay on high burn for a period of time but will deplete the fuel faster).
Please keep in mind the only 'real' value that a consumer can verify is the EPA emission level. Everything else and I mean everything (BTU, Sq Ft rating, Cu ft, Efficiencies etc...) is at the mercy of the company and its interpretation of what those specs are. The better ones have third party labs verify their claims.
I have access to charts that shows all the firebox sold in North America. For a 2 cu ft firebox the median BTU claimed by most MFG is around 65,000. There are 2 companies that list incredible BTU ratings for that size. Both are made in China products.
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powerking
ArboristSite Guru
Geez...With all this talk about stoves it makes me wish I had one!! I don't even have a fireplace to burn either!! Makes me so mad, cuz, I have access to lots of wood all the time!! I did have a Jotul Firelight that was given to me, but my house is so small that there was no place for me to put it....I wanted to put it in the basment, but ceiling clearances didnt allow so......
Jotul is a great brand and I wish I had their clean face insert in my fireplace. You should not have any problem re-selling it.
OH_Varmntr
Burner of stored sunlight
I've got a Vogelzang Norseman 2500 wood furnace. I bought it used and this is my first year burning with it.
I've got no ductwork in my home, as it has electric baseboard. I have 2 90* 6" elbows coming off the blower box that blows the hot air into my basement. From there, it's convection that does the work to heat every square inch of my 3600 sq ft home. Sitting here, it's about 88 degrees in my basement, 72 on the first floor of my house, and 68 on the second floor.
I'd say it does a very good job of heating the home. But it does use a lot of wood. I'm lucky to get 6 hours burn time with my flue temps at 300-350 degrees on a full load.
One thing I hate about it is that the automatic door damper is junk. I've got a manual damper in my 38' chimney and with it choked way off, when the auto damper shuts off to choke the fire down, the flue pulls enough draft it won't let the auto damper open back up on it's own.
So I've been experimenting with the auto door damper removed. I realize this way if the wind picks up and the draft increases, I have a better chance of overfiring it, but again, I'm experimenting.
But this is only temporary. We bought our house this year and didn't have the money for an OWB at this time. Next year though.
I've got no ductwork in my home, as it has electric baseboard. I have 2 90* 6" elbows coming off the blower box that blows the hot air into my basement. From there, it's convection that does the work to heat every square inch of my 3600 sq ft home. Sitting here, it's about 88 degrees in my basement, 72 on the first floor of my house, and 68 on the second floor.
I'd say it does a very good job of heating the home. But it does use a lot of wood. I'm lucky to get 6 hours burn time with my flue temps at 300-350 degrees on a full load.
One thing I hate about it is that the automatic door damper is junk. I've got a manual damper in my 38' chimney and with it choked way off, when the auto damper shuts off to choke the fire down, the flue pulls enough draft it won't let the auto damper open back up on it's own.
So I've been experimenting with the auto door damper removed. I realize this way if the wind picks up and the draft increases, I have a better chance of overfiring it, but again, I'm experimenting.
But this is only temporary. We bought our house this year and didn't have the money for an OWB at this time. Next year though.
William Balaska
Addicted to ArboristSite
I had a Vogelzang for one season several years ago it warped in one season with oak constantly being fired in it, I now have Vermont castings stoves in its place. Would not reccomend.
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I was just looking at these amongst others yesterday. They are rated at 119,000 BTU's., and the site I was on I think they wanted $1200 and some change. I say go for it.
sickle
ArboristSite Lurker
its funny to see this old post get some action.
I did buy the performer and have been very happy with it. This is my only expirence burning wood so I have nothing to comare it to. I burned oak all last year ran it every day and let it die overnight. Always had a good coal bed in the am for a fairly quick start. The heat it gives off is hard for me to give an example of. It says it can heat 2200 sq ft or something and i think it easily could in a newer more insulated house. We use it to heat about 1400 sq ft of our 4800 sq ft 1904 uninsulated leaky home.
Only problem I have had was the blower started making a noise (other than how it sounds when it runs). I call voglezang and they sent me a new one, didnt ask for proof or anything. Of course this was 6 months after my purchase, not telling what it would be after a few years.
I posted some video on you tube of it buirning if anyone wants to see it.
Vogelzang Performer wood stove in action - YouTube
I did buy the performer and have been very happy with it. This is my only expirence burning wood so I have nothing to comare it to. I burned oak all last year ran it every day and let it die overnight. Always had a good coal bed in the am for a fairly quick start. The heat it gives off is hard for me to give an example of. It says it can heat 2200 sq ft or something and i think it easily could in a newer more insulated house. We use it to heat about 1400 sq ft of our 4800 sq ft 1904 uninsulated leaky home.
Only problem I have had was the blower started making a noise (other than how it sounds when it runs). I call voglezang and they sent me a new one, didnt ask for proof or anything. Of course this was 6 months after my purchase, not telling what it would be after a few years.
I posted some video on you tube of it buirning if anyone wants to see it.
Vogelzang Performer wood stove in action - YouTube
CrappieKeith
Addicted to ArboristSite
I in fact do agree with Fryebug..
I'd add that heat exchanger surface area is a key...you can make all of the btus in the world ,but if they can not be exchanged they will exit out the flue waisted.
Thermal mass is also huge in aiding heat exchangers.
Draft speeds also effect the efficiency...the faster the drafts are the more higher the flue gas temps are....there are only so many btu's in a lb of wood.
When it comes to picking a brand of stove...I'm not experienced enough to say one way or another...same with OWB's.
My experience is in the warm air furnace segment of the market....however physics or rather nature's laws can not be changed.
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