Volzang Norseman 2500

[KindredSpiritzz]

Unfortunately i didnt research enough before making my wood furnace purchase and had no idea what i wanted beyond something that burns wood and heats the house so i ended up with a volzang norseman . This is my 2nd winter burning with it and im still either not getting the hang of it or it's just not capable of more than im getting now. It makes alot of creosote, its hard to control or keep in the burn zone and i get only about 4 hrs burn time thru the night. It does heat the house nicely (1600 sq ft). Just wondering if any volzang or hotblast owners have any useful tips for me to try. Do you guys pack that furnace tight with wood at night? Do you shut that little ash pan air intake spinner all the way tight for an over night burn? Just any tips or info on how you run yours would be appreciated.

 

[CampbellLandscaping]

I pack mine with wood at night. I try to use the larger pieces that I have for overnight burns... Stuff that will barely fit through the door. I leave the ash pan spinner open about 1/2 turn. The automatic damper is usually shut by that time after burning all day. I can get a load to last about 7-8 hours at night with enough coals to get the fire going in the morning. It does create a lot of creosote but I clean my chimney 3 times during the heating season. Not the best furnace for sure but it works for the price. I got mine for around $850 brand new.

 

[Nosmo]

Welcome to ArboristSite Campbell Landscaping.

 

[Whitespider]

It makes alot of creosote, its hard to control or keep in the burn zone and i get only about 4 hrs burn time thru the night.

All three of those issues are affected more by the quality and type of wood you load in the firebox, than the operation of the firebox itself...

What kind of firewood are you using?? (pine, elm, walnut, oak, etc.)
Was the firewood cut from "green" living trees, from dead-falls, do you buy it??
How are you seasoning the firewood?? (open stacks, in sun, in shade, under tarps, in a shed, etc.)
How long has said firewood been seasoning?? (weeks, months, years, etc.)

The worst engine in the world will run better on the best fuel, than the best engine will run on the worst fuel.
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[ziggo_2]

more info needed, more pictures of the install would be helpful too. The photo you have looks like it hasnt had a fire in it yet. Do you have a barometric regulator? is it set correctly? Learning the automatic damper control is a bit of a challenge. Dont worry so much about "keeping it in the burn zone" those gauges are more of a gimmick.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Heres some more pictures. To answer your questions. Wood is generally aspen, maple, box elder, black ash. Its been in a covered shed for 1 yr and averages about 16% on a moisture meter when i split a piece open. First picture of the stove is when it was newly installed. Double wall pipe comes off a 45 from the stove, 4 ft over diagonally to another 45 into the wall and chimney and up a 20 ft uninsulated liner. No barometric regulator, seems to draft pretty good once its warmed up.
Last night i really loaded the stove as full as i could get it(1st time i ever did this), let the fire get going good, by that time the flapper damper on the door was hot enough to be fully closed and useless so i had the ash spinner half way open and went to bed. After awhile i'd hear the thermostat get low enough the blower fans would go off, then kick on a minute or three later, pretty much ran like that all night,cycling on and off instead of getting hot and staying on. I even got up, gave it more air and let the fire get going more before tamping it down again and got the same results. It doesnt do that with a smaller load, burns nice then but doesnt burn long. I had trouble hitting 400 on the magnetic thermometer above the door last night with it fully loaded. That really surprised me as i always worried to much wood would get me a runaway fire.

 

[NSMaple1]

First off, those magnetic thermometers read low. They shouldn't even be sold IMO, if people are trying to get their temps up using them as a guide. They might be pushing into a danger zone & not even be knowing it, watching those things.

Second, if you haven't checked your chimney draft when it's burning, to see if it's within the spec'd range, chances are your chimney is sucking the heat outdoors. Especially if there's any wind at all blowing across the top of it. My 30' chimney draws 0.1" of draft with no wind, and no effort spent at sealing any pipe joints. Wind gusts can pull that to 0.3" with my baro damper held closed.

I don't think it's wet wood if a load disappears in 4 hours.

Internal probe thermometer for pipe temps, and Dwyer Mark II Model 25 manometer to measure flue draft - should be basic standard equipment for anyone burning wood, and not that expensive.

 

[outdoorsman0490]

I have a hotblast. My overnighters are unsplit rounds that just fit through the door. I put in a couple split pieces, then the big guy. The biggest change I made to the furnace: first I always have the ash door vent closed. That automatic wood door vent is always kept wide open. On The underside of the wood door vent, I have foil tape that covers all the air space so no air comes in from there. The only way air gets to the fire is from the top side of the wood door vent, which I keep an angle iron on to limit the air flow. I usually burn with 90% of the vent space closed; at night, it is all the way closed, the only air that gets in is from natural leaks in the unit. Also, the damper in the stove pipe I have backed open just a touch from having smoke come into the house when I open the wood door.

With this setup, oak, beech, black birch, maple, I can get a 7-10hr burn, more if there is a knot in the overnighter. Before I made these mods, a 5 hr burn was a lot, and less controllable.

 

[Whitespider]

Well, first of all, your blowers are controlled by an adjustable "blower/limit control"... if you think they're cycling on/off too often you can adjust the on and off set points (the instructions for doing so are on page 17 of your owners manual). You can set the on temp, the off temp, as well as the amount of difference between the two. I believe the "default" setting on the Honeywell Controller is 130° ON/OFF 90°, changing that to something like 160° ON/110° OFF will cause the blower to come on less often and run longer when it does... as well as keep your firebox temps higher, which will help reduce creosote formation. You may need to experiment a bit to find the best setting for your setup.

Second, aspen, (soft?) maple, Boxelder and Black Ash are not high BTU firewoods... and they don't last long in a firebox. If ya' want "hot", overnight (8 hour) burns ya' ain't gonna' get it from those types of wood. Think of it in terms of weight; the same "volume" of oak will weigh twice as much (or more) as aspen or Boxelder... same goes for the difference between soft and hard maple. A firebox full of oak will burn twice as long (or even longer) as a firebox full of aspen... and firebox temps will be much higher also. We burn "low" BTU firewoods during the daytime to maintain house temperatures... but at night, before bed, I load the box with (depending on how cold it's gonna' get) oak, hard maple or even larger chunks of elm for longer, hotter burns.

This just my opinion... but I wouldn't put much stock in the moisture meter reading.
My thinkin' is... if'n ya' haf'ta leave that draft spinner open, rather than just use the thermostatically controlled damper... your firewood (at least some of it) ain't as well seasoned as you believe. Although, admittedly, it seems the likes of Boxelder and soft maples (i.e., lower BTU, "softer" hardwoods) do require a bit more air to burn hot enough to be of much use. I've never looked at one... but maybe your thermostatically controlled damper needs an adjustment, maybe it's closing too soon.
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[KindredSpiritzz]

outdoorsman, i'd love to see a picture of your door vent system. i don't quite understand what you've done.
Spidey, the blower limit control works great most of the time but that night fully loaded it wouldnt get hot enough to stay on. Never had that happen with lesser loads so it was strange. I realize my firewood isnt the best but its what i have available to me. I try and use my hardwoods (sugar maple) for the over nighters.
The thermostatically controlled damper is really just a bimetal spring loaded dealie that closes as the stove gets hotter. The metal expands or something and releases tension on the chain to the door flapper. Normally it works ok until you reload an already hot stove then the new splits tend to smolder.

 

[Whitespider]

The thermostatically controlled damper is really just a bimetal spring... chain to the door flapper. Normally it works ok until you reload an already hot stove then the new splits tend to smolder.

Yeah... that's the nature of the beasts... smoke dragon furnaces that is...
I have DAKA smoke dragon furnace, but it has a forced draft blower... I put it on a bypass timer so when I add wood to a hot firebox I can set the timer to run the draft blower for a few minutes (from 5 minutes to 60 minutes, my choice) to get it a-burnin' and minimize the "smoldering" issue.
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[CampbellLandscaping]

My setup is pretty similar to yours. I have one of the ducts blowing into the basement though and the other is tied into the central system. My chimney is also about 20' with a liner. I only have the top 4' insulated . The automatic damper is a real pain on these furnaces.

 

[CampbellLandscaping]

 

[flotek]

I think the dirty burns and short 5-7 hr burn times are about normal . My dad has one he will load it up good with 5 large logs and only get around 5 hours of usable heat . He thinks this is normal for a wood furnace . my englander furnace I could usually get a solid. 8 hours sometimes even 10 if loaded up with oak or hard maple . My new drolet furnace gets 10 +hours with just some slab wood with another 4-5 hours of red hot coals left and it uses about half the wood as my old englander . It always seems to be going , totally different style furnace. ..Decent Burn times on that unit really depend on quality and type of your wood .i couldn't imagine having to wake up in night out of a dead sleep to feed the furnace I get really irritated if my sleep is disturbed .. Some would try and just make the most of the situation and deal with it but If it were me I'd sell it .its is personal opinion but They are just not worth the trouble and insatiable lust for firewood . Burning wood is hard work and for a 1600 ft house you shouldn't need a logging truck load of wood to heat it.and from a logical standpoint It doesn't do any good to save a bunch of money on initial unit cost only to lose it later in time and trouble due to its poor efficiency .

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

yeah im starting to think along those lines too. Wish i had been more educated when i bought it. Im starting to look at wood stoves for next winter. House is only 1600 sq ft so a stove in the den might heat the whole house. Den is in the lower part of the house and i have two hallways where warm air should rise and travel to other parts of the house. I was looking at some Quadrafire stoves today but they certainly arent cheap. Hoping to spend $1000 tops, so we'll see what next year brings.
Past few nights i have had better luck stuffing the wood box on the furnace and having it burn 6+ hrs but using all that wood kinda hurts.

 

[Whitespider]

I think the dirty burns and short 5-7 hr burn times are about normal . My dad has one he will load it up good with 5 large logs and only get around 5 hours of usable heat.

I loaded my DAKA smoke dragon about ¾ full with 4-6 inch splits of Black Maple (not large logs) last night at 8:00 PM and went to bed early (it had been a long day).

I rolled out at 5:30 this morning; the house was 67° (which is where the thermostat is set over night), there was warm air blowing from the vents, and a decent bed of coals in the firebox... enough coals to still be making warm air and enough to just throw some more splits in and slam the door. That's 9½ hours of usable heat... and I can get something well over that 9½ hours loading it full of oak splits.

Makes me wonder what it is your dad is doin' wrong??

I will say, I've never been a fan of using "large logs" in an indoor appliance... I split near everything. "Logs" just never seem to dry... they always hiss and steam, and never produce the heat splits will. When I want, or feel I need, "larger" pieces... I just use larger splits. Besides, round logs leave a lot of unutilized space in the firebox.

Dirty burns?? Dirtier than what?? Yeah, I'm sure it's "dirtier" than new (so called) clean burning appliances... but burning well seasoned splits is a lot cleaner than logs."Logs" flat smolder more than splits... that's just the way it is.
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[flotek]

White spider I would agree my father is probably not making the most of his appliance perhaps more so with the moisture content but it is still a wood hog and inefficient . If your getting 9 hours of heat your likely doing better than most.some would say that's an exception to the rule . In the end these older furnaces go through a lot of wood with their large fireboxes and have large heat swings . Yes they send a lot of heat up the chimney and also a lot of creosote this is compared to a model that burns off 30% of the smoke by means of secondary combustion That's free clean heat you'll never have that alone will save wood . A drolet h2000 or englander nc30 would come in around 1,000 bucks and be good stoves that offer 10 hr clean burns with Reburn technology

 

[Whitespider]

Well... a couple things @flotek,
I haven't noticed that mine uses that much wood, certainly not enough to be called a "wood hog"... large firebox yes, but it ain't necessary to completely fill it every time. Depending on how cold it is we load 2-4 times a day, but I've only "filled" it a couple times at night before bed when it was damn cold out. Really, "filling" it doesn't increase burn time all that much during normal operation, it just causes it to make more heat during that time... which ain't always needed. I just came in from moving snow, haven't put anything in the firebox since 5:30 this morning (12:15 now), I tossed in 4 larger elm splits and figure that should be good until sometime after dark tonight... damn hard to call that a "wood hog". My house stays a constant 70-71° without any temperatures swings at all... but maybe the forced draft blower has something to do with that, and then again, it likely won't run until sometime after midnight or later (shrug). I guess I've always attributed "large heat swings" to improper loading technique... not the appliance itself. Actually, the reason I prefer a "furnace" style wood-fired appliance over the "stove" style, is because I don't have those "large heat swings".

 

[laynes69]

The wood furnace the op has, we had in this house for 25 years. During that time, it burned at least 10 cord a year. We dropped that usage down when we bought the home, but still it was alot. I could have dampened it down alot and got longer burns but it would fill our 32' chimney with creosote. We used to load it with 4 to 5 pieces every 3 to 4 hours during the winter. We tried to keep a constant temperature in the house, but it was impossible. It's a different setup than the daka, it's a manual furnace. Overnight the house would hit 80 then we would wake to a 68 degree house where the lp furnace was set. We would pull 5 gallons of creosote out of the chimney every 1.5 months, which we tried to burn hot to keep the creosote down. The only way we would keep a good fire overnight was burnin large 8"+ rounds in our furnace. Hell, I remember the last spring before the new furnace, I burned over a cord in March in mild weather, where now we wouldn't burn even half that. Since our new furnace, I've done some energy upgrades, but an overnight load is about 2.5- 3 cu ft. compared to a 6.5 cu ft load in the old furnace. That smaller load burns a few hours longer, and we wake to a warmer house. Since we installed our new furnace, we use zero propane compared to a half tank or more for backup heating on the old furnace. Whitespider to be fair, you've modified your furnace to keep things operating more efficiently, most users do complain of temp swings and wood usage. The problem is a majority of wood furnace's are too large for the home. It's not a one size fits all, especially when you hear of a 150,000 btu furnace in a 1200 sqft home.

 

[Whitespider]

Whitespider to be fair, you've modified your furnace to keep things operating more efficiently...
The problem is a majority of wood furnace's are too large for the home.

I will concede that both of those things are true.
I've "modified" or built every wood-fired appliance I've ever owned to fit the intended purpose.
And certainly a furnace too large for the home will be problems unless modifications are made.

But I also firmly believe the differences between the newer, (so-called) high efficiency fireboxes and the older, more traditional fireboxes is grossly overstated... especially by the "true-believers" and/or those with limited experience using the older boxes. Are the newer boxes cleaner burning?? Yeah, on average they likely are... but if used correctly the older boxes will burn pretty damn clean. Do the newer boxes produce more heat, using less wood?? Maybe... marginally... maybe not... depends on the application and how they're used. Fuel efficiency ain't necessarily, or automatically heating efficiency... and neither is the inverse.

The few people I know that live out here in the county and heat their homes 100% with wood, to a man, are not impressed with the new-fangled fireboxes... the few people I know that live in town and use a stove in their family room to supplement heating are impressed. Four or five years ago my mother wanted to put a new stove in the house, something with a glass door rather than the old, black, cast iron thing that's been there since they'd moved in thirty years before. The local stove and fireplace dealer (a good friend of my dad) came out to look at what they had... and to make his recommendations. Dad still tells the story, because mom didn't get her way... the dealer pulled dad to the side and told him to keep what he had, told him they didn't make 'em like that anymore, and told him he'd be unhappy with any newer offering.
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