Weird thing with my splitter

[bert0168]

Finally got my used splitter modified and running right, or so I thought.

The splitter has an older Speeco valve that I'm pretty sure is really an Energy valve.
Initially the detent worked fine. I started to notice it was becoming a bit harder to set into detent, Suddenly I had a pressure spike to 2500 plus on the return as the ram retracted fully, then the return hose blew.

I'm not sure where the operating pressure is set, but splitting ash today, I never saw anything over 900.

I had to manually kick out the return detent or the pressure would spike every time. Any idea on what causes this

Is it something to do with the relief adjustment?

 

[twinfiddles]

Finally got my used splitter modified and running right, or so I thought.

The splitter has an older Speeco valve that I'm pretty sure is really an Energy valve.
Initially the detent worked fine. I started to notice it was becoming a bit harder to set into detent, Suddenly I had a pressure spike to 2500 plus on the return as the ram retracted fully, then the return hose blew.

I'm not sure where the operating pressure is set, but splitting ash today, I never saw anything over 900.

I had to manually kick out the return detent or the pressure would spike every time. Any idea on what causes this

Is it something to do with the relief adjustment?

Hmmmm... does sound like relief pressure is too high. You said it was an old valve. Probably internal problem??? They're not much money, I'd probably through a new one on and check the relief pressure setting.

 

[bert0168]

How does the relief setting affect the low pressure side?

 

[Jakers]

time for either a valve rebuild or just a new valve all together. your detent was sticking instead of kicking out. chances are the relief valve stuck as well causing the hose to blow. id suspect water or dirt in the system. mite be a good time to change the fluid too. a valve will go bad with use or just sitting but its usually linked to contaminated fluid

 

[Whitespider]

How does the relief setting affect the low pressure side?

I'd like to know the answer to that question also.
If you're talking about the low pressure (return) hose running from the valve to the reservoir, the valve shouldn't have any effect... should be near 0 PSI always, same as the reservoir. About the only way the return could reach 2500 PSI would be a restriction in the hose or where it connects to the reservoir.

Which begs the question...
How do you know the return hose pressure is/was 2500 PSI, there shouldn't be any reason for a gauge on it?

I had a pressure spike to 2500 plus on the return as the ram retracted fully, then the return hose blew.

What return hose? Or are you talking about the low side from the cylinder (which would be the high side on extend) to the valve? See, if the ram was "fully retracted", and the valve was stuck in retract position, the only place there should be pressure is between the pump to valve, and valve to cylinder high side (and that high side would become the low side on extend). In that case the relief should bypass the excess pressure to the reservoir return... and that has no restriction in it so no pressure, and no need for a gauge.

How many gauges do you have? Where are they located? Exactly which one peaked? And "specifically" what hose blew?
What you're describing doesn't quite make any sense... yet.

 

[Whitespider]

The more I think about it... I think you're confusing high side/low side and it was actually one of your pressure hoses that blew. Most reliefs on splitters are set somewhere between 2500 and 3000 PSI, so seeing a spike in that range isn't outside of design limits... as long as it doesn't continue to climb past 3000 PSI I'd think the relief is working properly (and the hose blew because its time had come). More likely the detent is the problem, not releasing at the preset pressure (or not releasing at all)... I know on some valves the detent is adjustable, others are not. Maybe it's just worn-out or contaminated as others have said.

 

[triptester]

Sounds like there is restriction in the the return line. If there is enough pressure to blow off the return hose this is a sign that there is excess pressure that can cause the detent to fail to operate properly. A common cause is a damaged bypass valve in the filter head. The filter bypass about a 1" diameter piece of plastic that when it breaks or comes loose it will obstruct the return.

 

[bert0168]

I'd like to know the answer to that question also.
If you're talking about the low pressure (return) hose running from the valve to the reservoir, the valve shouldn't have any effect... should be near 0 PSI always, same as the reservoir. About the only way the return could reach 2500 PSI would be a restriction in the hose or where it connects to the reservoir.

Which begs the question...
How do you know the return hose pressure is/was 2500 PSI, there shouldn't be any reason for a gauge on it?


What return hose? Or are you talking about the low side from the cylinder (which would be the high side on extend) to the valve? See, if the ram was "fully retracted", and the valve was stuck in retract position, the only place there should be pressure is between the pump to valve, and valve to cylinder high side (and that high side would become the low side on extend). In that case the relief should bypass the excess pressure to the reservoir return... and that has no restriction in it so no pressure, and no need for a gauge.

How many gauges do you have? Where are they located? Exactly which one peaked? And "specifically" what hose blew?
What you're describing doesn't quite make any sense... yet.

I have one gauge, 3000 max on the pressure side (between the pump and the valve before it enters the cylinder)

The line that "blew" is on the return side of the valve as it enters back into the tank. It didn't really blow, just blew off the nipple at the bottom of the tank, not at the valve.

I was confused by the pressure on the gauge as well. Why would it read on the pressure side of the valve?

What is happening is the detent acts like it is stuck on the return and when the ram fully retracts, it doesn't kick out, and the pressure spikes up to probably max but I pull it out of detent before that happens now.

Otherwise, it splits like normal. I'm going out now to remove the valve and get it apart in my shop to see what is up with it.

Keep the ideas coming, I'll post back when I get a look at the valve.

 

[bert0168]

Sounds like there is restriction in the the return line. If there is enough pressure to blow off the return hose this is a sign that there is excess pressure that can cause the detent to fail to operate properly. A common cause is a damaged bypass valve in the filter head. The filter bypass about a 1" diameter piece of plastic that when it breaks or comes loose it will obstruct the return.

It builds pressure because the detent won't release. The filter is ahead of the pump just outside the tank so the pressure is occurring between the pump, through the valve and back down to the tank at the return.

:msp_confused:

 

[bert0168]

I also noticed that while splitting the toughest piece I had (red oak crotch) I only saw pressures to 900 before it split.

I thought I would see higher than that.

 

[triptester]

Check the vent on the tank. Back pressure on the return line will cause the detent to malfunction.

 

[bert0168]

Check the vent on the tank. Back pressure on the return line will cause the detent to malfunction.

That's great advice and I never would think to check that.

 

[bert0168]

Well I think I found the problem.

I removed the valve and took it into my shop. Removed the rear detent assy. cover and unscrewed the assembly from the valve.
After I took some time and looked at how they were made and how common sense would dictate they be assembled based on their shape, I determined that at some point, someone took it apart and reassembled it in the wrong order.

This is the order I found them in........

This is how I determined they should fit and reassembled them accordingly.........

When I reinstalled it and ran a piece of ash through it, the detent is back to working, it kicks out at about 2 psi or so and the pressures on the out stroke are back to normal.
I think what happened, the incorrect order caused the entire assembly to unscrew itself from the spool and the O ring at the back was dropping in the last groove somehow and locking the spool in retract.
I still don't know why I was reading pressure on the gauge on the pressure side. :msp_confused:

And this is how it is plumbed on the splitter...........

I bought it used and the guy didn't know how to assemble the damn thing. This is the splitter that I posted about having a restricter fitting ahead of the valve giving me almost 1 min cycle times ONE WAY!!! :bang: Once i removed it, i had total cycle time of 20 sec.

The only mod I made so far is the battery tray and several repairs to correct things that were wrong (missing pins, washers, new solenoid) and I cleaned up the back end of the beam, he had cut it with a torch and it looked like the beaver had been chewing on it.

In the near (very near) future, I'm going to make a lift and a split table for it. I've been perusing the splitter build threads for ideas

 

[twinfiddles]

I still don't know why I was reading pressure on the gauge on the pressure side. :msp_confused:


I'm confused? Where else would you expect to read pressure? When the ram meets resistance it creates pressure all the way back to the pump so anywhere in that circuit would see pressure. The return side of the valve, back to the tank should never see pressure unless there is a restriction in the line. As someone else said, the reading you got on the gauge is probably normal relief pressure. You can check it by holding the valve open at max extension briefly so it builds to max pressure. Having the detent stuck on the return just did the same thing. Congrats on figuring out the problem. Always satisfying! :msp_thumbup:

 

[bert0168]

I still don't know why I was reading pressure on the gauge on the pressure side. :msp_confused:


I'm confused? Where else would you expect to read pressure? When the ram meets resistance it creates pressure all the way back to the pump so anywhere in that circuit would see pressure. The return side of the valve, back to the tank should never see pressure unless there is a restriction in the line. As someone else said, the reading you got on the gauge is probably normal relief pressure. You can check it by holding the valve open at max extension briefly so it builds to max pressure. Having the detent stuck on the return just did the same thing. Congrats on figuring out the problem. Always satisfying! :msp_thumbup:

What I meant was that since there isn't any restriction in the return, I wouldn't have thought I would see pressure on the supply side of the valve on full return. I wasn't aware that the pressure would build instead of bleed off into the tank.

As I tear into the splitter more, I'm learning more about the way these valves work. I see now the spool would let pressure built on both sides of the valve, then the clamp slipped on the return side (weakest point).

This is the kind of info that helps in understanding the mechanics of it.

And yea, I was pretty stoked about fixing it!

 

[shansen]

Just to clarify, your valve is not made by Energy. Speeco does buy our valves, but also a knock-off copy of our valve from China. The dead giveaway is the lack of the 4 3/8-16 tapped holes in the mounting feet. Parts are not interchangeable between our Energy valve and the Chinese valve.
Should you ever decide to replace your valve, we can help you with that.
Nice job of determining the improper assembly btw.
Steve Hansen
Applications Engineer
Energy Manufacturing Co., Inc. /
Williams Machine & Tool Co.
(319)-465-3537 X-402
(319)-465-5279 FAX
[email protected]