Welding bars together to make them longer

[ATpro]

Ok if your going to do this you first need to know what type of bars you have, Laminate bar or Solid bar, both have to be the same. I suggest tig weld because you can control the heat better and reduce warping better. The best way to weld is lock the bars in a vice about half way down the bars and tack weld both sides in 2 or 3 places, remove the bars and grind welds flat the put the bars back in the vice and tack weld the lower side, remove from vice and grind flat. Put the bar back in the vice and weld one side then the other, alternating from side to side as you weld, take your time to allow heat to disperse, leave in vice till cool then remove and grind flat, turn over lock in vice and do the lower side of bar. You can re-cut the chain groove with a dremel tool

 

[MFV]

We got some pretty good welders at work and I think you can weld about anything that you want with the right weld procedure. That being said there could be several steps to weld it out correctly pmi and possibly pre and post weld heat treatment but I bet you can do it

 

[calamari]

Here's my suggestion since everybody else seems to have one. I think you need to use at least three bars of the same make and model to make one of the proper length. I'd make three heavy paper/light cardboard templates of the bar you're going to use and then start cutting and overlaying them to get something that meets the shape you need. You may need to split a bar to get a graft longitudinal piece to fit in the middle of the bar to make it wider to keep the curve therefore three bars. When you get what you like, you've got the patterns to begin cutting.
It's going to be very flexible and could affect how it cuts depending on if your mill runs the bar vertically or horizontally. Post some pictures. I have a vague recollection of seeing a big bar made up of pieces from the distant past. Maybe the guy I knew in Fortuna that cut up old growth redwood stumps he'd drag out of the Eel River.

 

[AZWoodworker]

geeslus crust, its only steel, it can be welded, but its not mild steel, so take some forethought on that first, perhaps a little preheat? Not exactly high carbon steel either, its more tough then hard, at a guess I'm gonna call it some chromemolly alloy, the one I cut up years ago for a home brew "light bar" cut really well, the edges are hard ish... but not really all that hard, if a file can dress them with ease, then its not very ******* hard.

Modern bars are mostly laser/cnc plasma cut, then the rail groove is cut, so I highly doubt that heat input is going to be detrimental. though you may make a soft spot that will bend easy.

Anyway, all that out of the way, finding 2 bars that are parallel and straight enough to match up will be the big issue, besides welding them together and keeping the whole works straight and true, bars have either a taper towards the power head (fat nosed) or an overall belly to em, and it is to keep the chain from flopping about too much. not to mention cutting out the slot so it still works as a guide bar and not a side note with a funny story in your scrap pile.

long run, I'm going to say its cheaper and wiser to just order yourself a long bar from Cannon or whoever is making them now, even get em with slots on both ends for mounting either a stinger handle, or another power head

Some of these bars are 500 dollars or more. Can't see the cheaper part, but maybe the wiser. Not understand why 24 in the bar is 30 or 40 dollars but 76 is 500 hundred or more. They can charge what they want but that doesn't mean I have to buy it. I get used Bars that are in good condition. But this is only an expensive and labor-consuming hobby.

 

[AZWoodworker]

I've welded only some but many of these new bars are laminated now. Wonder how much this would affect it. Solid bars would operate differently in welding. Granberg only recommends solid bars for some of their mills.

 

[knezzer97]

thank you all for the very informative information....... i am just waiting for the bars to come in from the west coast then i will start welding at least two together to make a 50"ish bar... In the mean time i was looking around on Kijiji (like craigslist) and found a 72" laser mills bar and mill only problem is the tail end is massive around 5 inches and i believe the standard large mount stihl bars are around 3.5- 4" in width i am wondering if this would be a better option is to cut down the tail and recut the channel back into the bar

 

[calamari]

thank you all for the very informative information....... i am just waiting for the bars to come in from the west coast then i will start welding at least two together to make a 50"ish bar... In the mean time i was looking around on Kijiji (like craigslist) and found a 72" laser mills bar and mill only problem is the tail end is massive around 5 inches and i believe the standard large mount stihl bars are around 3.5- 4" in width i am wondering if this would be a better option is to cut down the tail and recut the channel back into the bar

I'd say the 72" bar modification would be way easier and with a better finished product! A 4" angle grinder with a very thin cutoff wheel would cut the new groiove I'd bet pretty easily. The hardest part would be making a guide to keep the wheel parallel to the bar's surface. If it cuts an inconsistent depth that shouldn't matter as long as it's not so deep it makes the rails weak and then can't keep the chain located properly. I bet that's not a cheap bar so you'd want to experiment on a scarp bar.

 

[northmanlogging]

Some of these bars are 500 dollars or more. Can't see the cheaper part, but maybe the wiser. Not understand why 24 in the bar is 30 or 40 dollars but 76 is 500 hundred or more. They can charge what they want but that doesn't mean I have to buy it. I get used Bars that are in good condition. But this is only an expensive and labor-consuming hobby.

couple reasons that they get expensive.
supply and demand being not the only reason
bars have tolerances, any machined product will have tolerances, but the longer a thing gets the harder it is to hold tighter tolerances, and for a long bar to be worth owning, those same tolerances need to be held to even tighter standards, those standards ain't cheap especially considering the scrap rates will go up with tighter tolerances, and it simply takes more skill to hold said tolerances.

And no just putting them in a CNC machine doesn't magically make tight tolerances easy to hold, it helps, but you still need fixturing, and a machine large enough to cut 72" or more in one set up, machines that large are not cheap

then figure that long bars are not real common, you have to account for set up times as well, set up takes time regardless of length or type, but when you make 1000 of them you can spread the cost out over 1000 parts, but when you might make 10 per year, those same set up costs are spread over a mere 10 parts.

As for the Cannon Bars, I'm pretty sure they make them as ordered, so every single bar is treated as a custom order, hence you eat the set up costs on each one, for Cannon to sell them for $5-700 is really pretty cheap all things considered.

 

[northmanlogging]

either way, I think the attempt is valid, but the results may not be worth the effort, even though I fully support the effort.

 

[knezzer97]

either way, I think the attempt is valid, but the results may not be worth the effort, even though I fully support the effort.

i will be posting updates and pics along the journey lol

 

[AZWoodworker]

couple reasons that they get expensive.
supply and demand being not the only reason
bars have tolerances, any machined product will have tolerances, but the longer a thing gets the harder it is to hold tighter tolerances, and for a long bar to be worth owning, those same tolerances need to be held to even tighter standards, those standards ain't cheap especially considering the scrap rates will go up with tighter tolerances, and it simply takes more skill to hold said tolerances.

And no just putting them in a CNC machine doesn't magically make tight tolerances easy to hold, it helps, but you still need fixturing, and a machine large enough to cut 72" or more in one set up, machines that large are not cheap

then figure that long bars are not real common, you have to account for set up times as well, set up takes time regardless of length or type, but when you make 1000 of them you can spread the cost out over 1000 parts, but when you might make 10 per year, those same set up costs are spread over a mere 10 parts.

As for the Cannon Bars, I'm pretty sure they make them as ordered, so every single bar is treated as a custom order, hence you eat the set up costs on each one, for Cannon to sell them for $5-700 is really pretty cheap all things considered.

Thanks, I noted the supply and demand aspect but did not realize quantity would be that low and did not know the specs issues so thanks for the education. I am going to have to spend that soon and being genetically cheap by race it always hurts a bit. Little more information helps the natural pain.

 

[Captain Bruce]

Is it practical? No. Is it safe? No. Does it make sense? No.
Can you do so for free? If so, have at it. 30% are encouraging the fool-hardy exercise. The majority say, don't do it, buy a proper bar. Lets put this thread, to bed.

 

[knezzer97]

Is it practical? No. Is it safe? No. Does it make sense? No.
Can you do so for free? If so, have at it. 30% are encouraging the fool-hardy exercise. The majority say, don't do it, buy a proper bar. Lets put this thread, to bed.

might not make sense to you but in Canada a 72" bar is 800$ im just starting out milling and im not spending that money on a bar till i can make some money. i have 2 bars laying around and not gunna gunna cost me a dime.

sorry to upset you captain bruce

 

[Captain Bruce]

might not make sense to you but in Canada a 72" bar is 800$ im just starting out milling and im not spending that money on a bar till i can make some money. i have 2 bars laying around and not gunna gunna cost me a dime.

sorry to upset you captain bruce

First off, I'm a fellow Canuck. (Essex County) Secondly, your assumption that you upset anyone with this crazy scheme is pointless. You asked, the internet answered. When the majority of the replies suggest it doesn't make sense, than it doesn't. Nuff said.
I would appreciate a link to the vendors store/site, showing that $800 cost figure.........given that it is the lowest of all your shopping thus far......P.S. : There is a marketplace somewhere on this site. Maybe someone will see this and come fwd., albeit in a seperate thread, offering up what you hope to achieve, for much less. If you simply do not want to spend any money, than you are off and running. Hope to see photos of the finished weld. Good Luck and Work Safe!

 

[knezzer97]

First off, I'm a fellow Canuck. (Essex County) Secondly, your assumption that you upset anyone with this crazy scheme is pointless. You asked, the internet answered. When the majority of the replies suggest it doesn't make sense, than it doesn't. Nuff said.
I would appreciate a link to the vendors store/site, showing that $800 cost figure.........given that it is the lowest of all your shopping thus far......P.S. : There is a marketplace somewhere on this site. Maybe someone will see this and come fwd., albeit in a seperate thread, offering up what you hope to achieve, for much less. If you simply do not want to spend any money, than you are off and running. Hope to see photos of the finished weld. Good Luck and Work Safe!

thank you for your opinion. im asking for pointers when doing it, i am going to do it regardless of what anyone says not because im stupid or an idiot because i want to know about the possible outcomes and benefits. im sure there where lots of people saying don't port your cylinders its unsafe and it'll blow your saw, now look where this has gotten with porting jobs.

all I am saying i don't know why you would comment saying "Lets put this thread, to bed" when this could help a lot of people maybe in a pinch or what not all idea and opinions all always welcome as far as im concerned

also the $800 price tag was from a local dealer cannon doesn't give prices that i have seen

 

[calamari]

might not make sense to you but in Canada a 72" bar is 800$ im just starting out milling and im not spending that money on a bar till i can make some money. i have 2 bars laying around and not gunna gunna cost me a dime.

sorry to upset you captain bruce

Some people are just cautious by nature. 70% of people who post on a forum is not a definitive answer to any question. Keep looking for info.
I think you're going to need at least three trash bars to do it. I also think that the reason the commercial bar is so large top to bottom is to deal with the bar's flex. They may require a larger style chain too. Making one out of shorter bars may be very flexible because you're using narrower, and maybe thinner, bars to start from. You may need to use even more than three bars to get a long one that is rigid enough. I think you'll have quite a few weld lines and not just the two you were hoping for and it may look like Frakenstein's monster's face before you're through. I bet it's still doable but you'll call it "Frankenbar." It all revolves around how good a welder and metal worker you are. I bet you'll have several failures before you get one you like enough to put a chain on. Welding heat is your real enemy and warping is what will kill the bar. Oiling the bar may be an issue too.
Here's some info about guys not afraid of their bars plus other stuff you might find useful. Amazon has 72" bars for both Stihl and Husqvarna for less than $400 US. That's getting close to it not being worth the effort to save money on a tar baby project. I can't get links to Amazon's pages to show up on this site that show the bars so you'll have to research it yourself.





https://www.protoolreviews.com/how-steel-chainsaw-guide-bars-made-stihl/

 

[Franny K]

also the $800 price tag was from a local dealer cannon doesn't give prices that i have seen

https://www.newenglandpine.com/product-page/g1-72-63-double-ended-sawmilling-bar
Cannon did answer my emails promptly, I wanted a large nose hard nose bar at the time which they do not offer. I asked about some surplus left over stuff they listed on their site but was not my idea of a close out deal.

If you do weld up one I am with the guy that says start with 3 bars, cut two where they are the biggest and then split the third down the middle and use scraps from the first two to fill in the void. If you do anything but stitch weld likely will need chill bars and fixture. Maybe only get 70% or so of the third one in increased length. It seems there are gadgets to hold the bar up in the middle at the start of the cut so if you made your own perhaps could put a crown in it so it is flat naturally when supported from the ends.

 

[northmanlogging]

Thanks, I noted the supply and demand aspect but did not realize quantity would be that low and did not know the specs issues so thanks for the education. I am going to have to spend that soon and being genetically cheap by race it always hurts a bit. Little more information helps the natural pain.

Not to many cutting big timber on a regular basis anymore... granted I've ran the 084 enough this week (its tuesday) to hate my life and remember there are muscles in what used to be called a neck... and put a pretty decent wad of cash in Nelson Petroleum's christmas fund... (******* thing is hard on fuel... ) (also, I'm well into my cups at this point trying to forget that my legs hate me as well) But hey 2 days of cutting and there are at least 6 loads of logs waiting to be hauled... not T bag for hand falling and hand limbing/bucking

Anyway, I'd be surprised if they sold more then a few hundred of any bar over say 50"s, then figure that everyone they do sell is a random ass size...


Back to the point of the thread in general, extra long bars have their own set of peculiar issues, assuming they are up to spec to begin with, they are floppy on a good day, keeping a chain on one is just a pain in the ass at all times, then you factor in chain size and power head requirements... anything over say 42" pretty much needs a big block saw, 100cc or better, so you're talking more then likely .404 chain or bigger... (though it can be done with .063 3/8 chain... its not advisable) then you have to figure that the chain has to be perfectly sharpened, and thats a whole lot of expensive chain to file FYI, anyhow...

to the point... build it, have fun doing so, if it works fantabulous, if it fails **** it you tried, as for the world of naysayers **** them too what have they done that was fun and creative? As for it failing and risking life and limb... not likely, don't be an idiot and keep the soft fleshy bits protected, no worries, if the bar breaks, worst case scenerio it gets jammed in the cut and you lose a fairly valuable slab, if it magically breaks while trying to over rev the **** out of a 90cc saw.., **** all is going to happen any worse then throwing the chain and scuffing your boots.

 

[Captain Bruce]

I had a damaged bar tip where the sprocket nose joins and rivets to the bar on one of my 32’s that I welded. Worked fine never had a problem.
If you have two bars lay them on top of each other and slide them apart to where you think you want to cut them and note the widths at that point whether they match or not. I don’t think it will work due to the bars profiles mentioned earlier. If at that point you think it could work take a junk bar and cut in half, then weld it together and see how it works/test bar strength.
If it were me I would buy a Cannon in the proper length and get to milling.

Thats the ticket. Do the task, and see how it works.

 

[3000 FPS]

I say go for it. I have a tig welder and have welded up all kinds of things with no problem.
Chainsaw bars are a hard metal, but they are not brittle and can be welded with no problem.
Like previously said they can be filed, and you can drill through them.