What does the Echo "death rattle" sound like?

[Torquey Todd]

Post title says it all. I've searched this and other forums with puritanical zeal but haven't found an answer, so I figured I could ask.

My Stihl saws rattle. My pop's Husky rattles. My new Echo rattles. I know about the need for carb adjustment on Echos; I know lots of you dudes here hate Echos. I have run one tank of gas through my new echo, and it rattles. I can't tell if it's the sprocket bearings, the starter mechanism, chain brake parts, or what. I'm really curious what it is about one rattle that makes it DEATH, vs. another rattle that's perfectly normal. Maybe you dudes are savants and can hear galling? That would be pretty great -- teach me.

My impression is that this rattle is apocryphal, but my mind is open.

And, I'm new to posting but I've lurked for a while -- thanks a lot for the lots of info. on here, folks. I made a ringer out of a useless saw thanks to bsnelling's and others' thread about changing the carburetor on a little Stihl. That made my day.

Thanks.

 

[Warped5]

Todd, anyone that puts the words 'puritanical zeal' in their first post is worthy of some rep! Welcome to AS!

BTW, all of mine rattle too! Even the Echo!

 

[Zombiechopper]

'death rattle' is just the particular rattle that happens right before it burns up :hmm3grin2orange:

Seriously though, its just a euphemism for any saw that sounds like a sewing machine instead of an engine.

None of my saws rattle. If they do its usually the clutch drum pinging and I adjust idle so it doesn't do it

 

[Torquey Todd]

Todd, anyone that puts the words 'puritanical zeal' in their first post is worthy of some rep! Welcome to AS!

BTW, all of mine rattle too! Even the Echo!

Thanks!

I just spent some quality time with the saw (it's a CS-370) this afternoon. I listened to it at all possible RPMs and at the whole range of carb settings through which the saw will run. I can get it to idle with enough motion that it'll rattle the starter mech. pawls. Or at a different frequency and with the chain not tight enough, the nose sprocket bearings (currently part of an Oregon pro 91 bar). The pawl rattle can sound a lot like pinging. Nose sprocket rattle sounds real bad! I got no other rattles to tell you about. 9K RPM WOT sounds rich. 13K RPM WOT sounds like short P&C life. No rattles.

So, I assume mine doesn't have the death rattle. It sure shouldn't at this age anyway. I'm really curious what the DEATH is, though. I put a few ball bearings in the cylinder to see if that would make a good rattle, but no.

Anyway, I did away with the limiter caps (saw didn't come from a dealer anyway, so no warranty to hope for) and adjusted the mix as best I could: a conservatively rough idle, and a conservative WOT setting giving me 11K RPM and all the power I need. The friendly Echo tech. told me earlier on the phone that the saw (and other small Echos) are intended to do 12-12.5K. Pulls a 16" bar's worth of square-cutter chain through white oak just fine. The saw did come from the factory too lean, I think. It would baaarely "4-stroke" at WOT and it ran hot. And I'd like to know what people's experiences informing "what is too hot" are, but that'll be another thread.

 

[Torquey Todd]

'death rattle' is just the particular rattle that happens right before it burns up :hmm3grin2orange:

Seriously though, its just a euphemism for any saw that sounds like a sewing machine instead of an engine.

None of my saws rattle. If they do its usually the clutch drum pinging and I adjust idle so it doesn't do it

Ah. So "death rattle" sounds like a Subaru flat 4. That's a start.

 

[rmotoman]

I have ran a number of echo chainsaws and have never experienced the "echo death rattle". PPG has and will gladly tell all he knows.

 

[Zombiechopper]

I have ran a number of echo chainsaws and have never experienced the "echo death rattle". PPG has and will gladly tell all he knows.

He has worked for years and years as a pruner for silvaculture operations. You should check out his vids on youtube. The guy has run lots of saws to death, and knows lots of guys in the industry that run a variety of top handles. In that line of work, a top handle gets used all day every day. Running and cutting all day long, day after day until it dies. Most will never run a top handle enough to kill it but he has many times over just from crazy amount of hours that his line of work puts on a top handle. So, when he says echo's burn up faster I tend to listen. What you have to understand, is that most of us will never put the hours on one to get to that point so it probably doesn't matter. But you gotta realize he is in a particular position of knowledge on the subject that comes from experience with the saws that very few have. Even a guy climbing every day will put only a fraction of the hours on a top handle compared to tree farm pruner. Watch the vids and imagine doing that for a whole work day, every day, for months and years until the saw is just worn out.

 

[Hedgerow]

I have only heard one saw with "the rattle"... It started and ran... The "rattle", I found was piston slap... It was a Stihl 026... The skirts were wore thin. This wasn't due to any poor components or design that I know of... Just ran in a very dirty environment for many, many years... The "rattle" was at all rpm's... From idle to full throttle... Could this be "the rattle" folks speak of???
:canny:

 

[mattinky]

The "death rattle" sounds like spark knock in a car engine

 

[REJ2]

I have ran a number of echo chainsaws and have never experienced the "echo death rattle". PPG has and will gladly tell all he knows.

PGG is an Echo expert so it seems, well at least he hates them!

 

[griffonks]

Which Echo? Check the fuel filter in the tank. Perhaps it's the cause. My old CS4400 threw a chain yesterday. The sprocket wore out. Not bad considering it's on it's second piston. I wish it had more power in the cut.

Sent from my M860 using Tapatalk

 

[w8ye]

I have a lot of chainsaws and two stroke yard implements, some pro and some discount store home owner pruning types.

None of these have the Death Rattle. I know what the death rattle sounds like as I have heard it on other's engines.

I even have a 50cc Echo as well as three smaller blower/weed whacker types. I do not see Echo as being anything bad. In fact they are much better than anything Chinese. I have had them for years.

I watch my fuel (rich-lean) mixture and the four stroke point is my magic sound even on the four strokes.

 

[Bob Wright]

The only thing that i have heard rattle is the fuel filter in the gas tank...Bob

 

[Torquey Todd]

Engine knock, huh? From the same causes as engine knock, or just a generally metallic pinging sound for whatever reason (piston slap like another guy said)?

Yes, I've read all kinds of back-and-forth on this (very informative) forum, about brands. One man's experience is interesting and useful to hear about, but is also meaningless if it's a truly singular experience, when it comes to characterizing a whole brand's production of saws. So, neato that PGG is a pruner and has a litany of Echo failure stories. I've got family in silviculture and forestry with no such litany and a decent list of whole-life-used-up saws, and sure, we can compare bar lengths if someone really needs to satisfy an authority fetish. But I don't really care. Information to me ideally comes in trend form, and whereas a "many Echo users complain of failure" signal would make me think there's a systematic issue, "a couple of guys on a forum feel really strongly" means very little. Not that their experiences aren't entirely legit; you just gotta have more replicates to really chalk something up to being universal.

Now, if homeslice is an expert in the unique Echo death rattle because 1) Echos produce them so consistently, and 2) dude is the singular dude who's seen it happen so often, then I'm sure I can get a good idea of what to expect from my saw, if'n it's really going to rattle, starting after six or eleven (depending) seconds of use. That's what I'd like to know.

 

[Sabertooth]

Trust me. You'll know when the engine in knocking. You'll really know it when it doesn't start anymore

 

[Zombiechopper]

Engine knock, huh? From the same causes as engine knock, or just a generally metallic pinging sound for whatever reason (piston slap like another guy said)?

Yes, I've read all kinds of back-and-forth on this (very informative) forum, about brands. One man's experience is interesting and useful to hear about, but is also meaningless if it's a truly singular experience, when it comes to characterizing a whole brand's production of saws. So, neato that PGG is a pruner and has a litany of Echo failure stories. I've got family in silviculture and forestry with no such litany and a decent list of whole-life-used-up saws, and sure, we can compare bar lengths if someone really needs to satisfy an authority fetish. But I don't really care. Information to me ideally comes in trend form, and whereas a "many Echo users complain of failure" signal would make me think there's a systematic issue, "a couple of guys on a forum feel really strongly" means very little. Not that their experiences aren't entirely legit; you just gotta have more replicates to really chalk something up to being universal.

Now, if homeslice is an expert in the unique Echo death rattle because 1) Echos produce them so consistently, and 2) dude is the singular dude who's seen it happen so often, then I'm sure I can get a good idea of what to expect from my saw, if'n it's really going to rattle, starting after six or eleven (depending) seconds of use. That's what I'd like to know.

Anyways, I think you just feel like scrapping so I'll leave you to it. You took what I wrote and invented an argument with yourself. I'd like to know what else Dude and Homeslice are going to say next in your head so I'm just going to watch.

 

[tigersaw]

The best sound and Echo makes is the one when you set it on the counter and trade it in for something else.

 

[Hedgerow]

Anyways, I think you just feel like scrapping so I'll leave you to it. You took what I wrote and invented an argument with yourself. I'd like to know what else Dude and Homeslice are going to say next in your head so I'm just going to watch.

I hope dude and ass wipe aren't just trolls of some sort...

Megalomania is running rampant lately it seems...

 

[Torquey Todd]

Anyways, I think you just feel like scrapping so I'll leave you to it. You took what I wrote and invented an argument with yourself. I'd like to know what else Dude and Homeslice are going to say next in your head so I'm just going to watch.

Right.

"What does Echo death rattle sound like -- you guys talk about it not infrequently when Echo comes up and I decided to ask?"
"Echos suck"
"Yes of course, not really concerned with that -- so, sounds like...?"
"No really I know a guy who says Echos REALLY suck and he knows a lot."
"Right but he's just one guy, I'm sure he knows a lot, that's great, not really concerned with that -- so, like engine knock?"

I'm set, though -- the mystery rattle sounds like any other small engine's developing too much clearance somewhere. I was interested to know if there was something, like a design-particular, about Echos specifically that one (a dude, a homeslice, a guy) would listen for. I gather there is not.

So right on, thanks!

 

[Sabertooth]

Echo is a avg. saw IMO. They're not a bad pro by any means, but I wouldn't buy them TBH.

I've never come across a chain saw that had this " Death rattle" These things normally last forever after they're broken in. Never had an Echo, but I heard great thing about here smaller models. Never had an engine blow on my saws; just the seals on the 15+ saws.