What kind/size of tree can we get for $600? Should we?

[Darrel]

Here's the situation: we live on an urban lot with one tree on our property. It's a 20'-ish Maple tree. Not the prettiest tree, but is the only tree we have, does give nice shade on our front patio, and the kids love playing on it.

The problem is that it is sick. So, we've had two arborists look at it and the concensus appears to be:

- 2 years of Anthracnose treatment (2 sprayings per year @ $100 spray = $400)
- Treatment (forgot the name) to encourage root growth and slow down the crown (current soil is clay, some construction damage) = $100
- Some upper branch pruning ($300, though they recommend I just spend $150 on a good ladder and do it myself)

So, we're looking at about $600 investment in this tree. Now, that would be a no-brainer decision if this was the only issues the tree has. Unfortunately, there are two other issues:

- it has a rather large forked trunk with bark inclusion. Both arborists said it's not good, and, eventually, it likely will split (probably killing the tree). Might be 5 years. Might be 15 years.

- It's suffering from root girdling. Probably fixable over time with annual trimming of some of the girdled roots and clearing some of the topsoil near the trunk (it appears that the tree was originally planted too far below the soil line).

So, the question is, do we treat, and hope the tree gives us another 10+ good years, or do we consider starting fresh and taking it down and planting a new tree? We don't want to destroy this tree if all we can replace it with is an $80 sapling that would take a good 10 years to even begin to look somewhat full. What could we get for the $600? Can you buy semi-medium/largish trees that are transplantable in that price range? Any specific trees that would be good urban/bad-soil trees but semi-fast growth (but not more than 20/30 feet mature)?

At the very least, we do want to get another $80-ish tree established in another part of our yard so if/when this tree does go, we will have one decent tree on the lot.

 

[DGG]

If you read your posting again the answer is obvious. Remove it. It is, and looks like it always will be, trouble. Take a sturdy branch from it and give whoever planted it a good hard whack upside the head.

Plant what you like (it shouldn't cost $600) properly and in a few years you should have a wonderful tree. Cut-up and split the wood from the removed old tree for firewood. Let the logs dry for a year before burning them. A cord of dried maple where I live runs $200-250.

With your clay soil you will want plenty of room for the roots to wander, dig a very large hole and use a good potting soil, or mix your clay soil with lots of sand and peat. Lots!

I had a similar situation in my front yard. I had a goofy looking cherry (nice for fireplace burning) that I cutdown and replaced with a Sugar Maple that is doing great. I mulch around the base and plant flowers. The tree and the tulips seems to enjoy each other's company. The tree is spectacular in the fall!

 

[Burvol]

Yep, trees grow back...Firewood!

 

[Dixie1]

the larger the tree, the harder for it to recover from transplanting. i would shop for a tree that is a 2" - 3" caliper. This is a nice sized tree that won't be too much trouble to get established. I would advise you not to add amendments to your soil. That is the soil you are stuck with. The trees roots need to get used to where it will be growing. Adding sand in your planting hole, especially mixed with clay, will cause more severe drainage problems. ISA recommends that you don't add soil ammendments. If you add peat, potting soil, etc. in the planting hole you are creating a lush environment only in the planting hole where the roots will want to stay. If they have all those goodies nearby, they will encircle themselves and not expand out like they should. you want to backfill your hole with the same soil you removed to dig the hole. here is a good link on planting trees. http://www.clemson.edu/extfor/publications/forlf17/

 

[DGG]

Dixie1 -- Good link. I think your red southern clay/soil is different than my Delaware Piedmont Plateau clay-rock stuff. I can easily make a snowball out of a hand full of local soil because it is so heavy with clay. Water will puddle on the surface of the ground for days. Percolation is a definate problem.

I did what the folks at the University of Delware Agriculture department suggested after looking at a pail of the stuff that I brought them. So far the results have been good. With a big hole and good soil and mulch all my trees are growing and some even flowering very nicely, thank you Bradford Pear and Dogwoods!

My goal when blending the various soil components was to give the tree some TLC after the shock of being transplanted. I have no doubt that once they reach maturity they will be able to bulldoze those roots through that clay. I just don't want the roots to run along the surface because that is the only place they can find water.

Does this make sense to you? Thanks again for the good link.

Here is a link from a major nursery in the area. Note the comment about good drainage.

http://www.ronnys.com/doit-treesshrubs.html

I guess the best thing is for a person to check with the local experts about local soil conditions and follow their instructions.

 

[Darrel]

Thanks everyone. To clarify the $600 price...I was hoping that maybe for that price one could get a slightly more mature that looked somewhat established vs a 2/3' sized one. I understand that perhaps the issue is simply that a tree of that age couldn't easily be transplanted.

Part of the equation is that we'll likely be moving in the next 2-5 years. Having a mature tree out front would look a lot better than a small starter-tree.

That said, it sounds like we maybe should just bite the bullet and go that route. So, with that said, what would people recommend for getting the most for our buck in terms of quick-growing species?

 

[TimberJack_7]

Thanks everyone. To clarify the $600 price...I was hoping that maybe for that price one could get a slightly more mature that looked somewhat established vs a 2/3' sized one. I understand that perhaps the issue is simply that a tree of that age couldn't easily be transplanted.

Part of the equation is that we'll likely be moving in the next 2-5 years. Having a mature tree out front would look a lot better than a small starter-tree.

That said, it sounds like we maybe should just bite the bullet and go that route. So, with that said, what would people recommend for getting the most for our buck in terms of quick-growing species?

Darrel,

If you plan on replacement, the first thing you need to consider is what zone you are in. According to the USDA hardiness zone map, depending where you are in Minnesota, you are either zone 3 or zone 4. Certain trees will tolerate your climate better than others. For example sake, there are many varieties of maples that would fit the bill for what you are looking for. If you are looking for faster growth, a red maple or perhaps a norway maple would do the job and the red maples are pretty spectacular in the fall. For a little stronger maple, you could go with a sugar maple, also beautiful in the fall, but slower growing.

You should also figure out if you want something more ornamental like a crabapple (certain varieties are messy) or a bradford pear (better buy a good set of pruners!) or something that is an evergreen. I recommend before sinking any money into whatever tree special they are having at the local nursery, purchase a copy of "Dirrs Hardy Trees and Shrubs". ISBN - 0-88192-404-0

This will give you more options than you ever knew possible. Also make sure that whether you or a landscape company plants the tree, be sure that the cage and burlap is removed even if someone tells you it is biodegradable. Also be sure to break the soil/clay up as much as possible when planting. You can easily plant a tree that is already 10ft. tall.

Good Luck.

 

[JUDGE1162]

most nurseys sell larger trees and will even transplant them for you if that is what you want $600 including transport and planting if you spent $600 should get you a pretty large tree, however you might be better off buying a 2-4" dbh tree for a $100 to $200 maybe even two of them and planting them yourself. I saw a nice red maple at HD, about 10' high and 3" caliber for $150 yesterday

A pickup tree and an afternoon of digging a few bags of mulch and your set.

 

[DGG]

Thanks everyone. To clarify the $600 price...I was hoping that maybe for that price one could get a slightly more mature that looked somewhat established vs a 2/3' sized one. I understand that perhaps the issue is simply that a tree of that age couldn't easily be transplanted.

Part of the equation is that we'll likely be moving in the next 2-5 years. Having a mature tree out front would look a lot better than a small starter-tree.

That said, it sounds like we maybe should just bite the bullet and go that route. So, with that said, what would people recommend for getting the most for our buck in terms of quick-growing species?

Willlow or Cottonwood.

 

[Dixie1]

kentucky coffee tree, Gymnocladus dioicus. here is the tree description
http://www.floridata.com/ref/G/gymn_dio.cfm

 

[Darrel]

Willlow or Cottonwood.

I love both of those trees. Alas, both would be way to large when mature for the space. ;o)

 

[DGG]

Here the info straight from the experts in "fast growning trees".

http://www.fast-growing-trees.com/

 

[TimberJack_7]

Willlow or Cottonwood.

Are you kidding? Those are two of the worst trees you could have close to a house! The cottonwood wouldn't be as bad as the willow but it is still pretty brittle wood and when spring comes this guy would have a big fluffy mess.

Of course then again, he did say he was only going to be there for 2 - 5 years so what does he care? I guess another good thing is that it would keep a local arborist busy every two years with routine trimming and maintenance!

Even a tulip/poplar tree (also brittle) would be a better choice than those two trees!

 

[DGG]

Hey, TJ7, take a Prozac or something!

Did I say they were "good" trees or that I'd plant one in my yard? No.

Darrel asked for suggestions about "fast growing" trees. Wouldn't you agree these qualify? He doesn't say how big his "urban lot" is but it must have some size if he is looking for tree suggestion.

What's your suggestion?

Oak - too may acorns in the fall.

Maple - little whirly things all over the place.

Fruit - fermenting fruit lying on your lawn.

I can find something wrong with just about every tree species if I look deep enough. But come on, it's just a tree!

 

[Husky137]

You had arborists recommend you buy a good ladder and prune it yourself? I'd be looking for a third opinion.

 

[TimberJack_7]

Hey, TJ7, take a Prozac or something!

Did I say they were "good" trees or that I'd plant one in my yard? No.

Darrel asked for suggestions about "fast growing" trees. Wouldn't you agree these qualify? He doesn't say how big his "urban lot" is but it must have some size if he is looking for tree suggestion.

What's your suggestion?

Oak - too may acorns in the fall.

Maple - little whirly things all over the place.

Fruit - fermenting fruit lying on your lawn.

I can find something wrong with just about every tree species if I look deep enough. But come on, it's just a tree!

Ok, fair enough. Yes they are fast growing trees and no you did not say they were good trees, however your lack of foresight indicates that perhaps you should stick to accounting instead of tree recommendations. Recommending a junk tree is far worse than no recommendation at all. How many willow or cottonwood trees have you been up to trim DGG?

As for the size of his lot, no he did not specify, but he did say that he was in an urban lot, not a suburban or rural lot which leads me to believe that perhaps space is at a premium. My suggestion was for the questioning party to make a small investment in a book that describes with pictures, different trees and where they do best.

If it was my urban lot, I would probably go with something like a paperbark maple (Acer griseum) because it looks awesome in the fall, the bark is a nice copper color, especially when the sun is on it and it can really break up a winterscape. I could also go with a Japanese Umbrella Pine, or a Hinoki Falsecypress (Chamaecyparis obtusa), but hey that's just me. The conifers all have some really funky variations, but like you said, all trees are subject to some sort of clean up.

If he wanted something that really grew fast, he could just plant bamboo or a dawn redwood. Since they are just trees though, I still think you should stick to accounting........

 

[Darrel]

You had arborists recommend you buy a good ladder and prune it yourself? I'd be looking for a third opinion.

Well, I thought it was fairly good advice. Both said the tree isn't so large that I couldn't do it myself and both had minimum $300 charges for pruning.

I do appreciate all the advice everyone! We did look at some 2.5" Autumn Blaze Maples that are going for $300 that seemed quite nice. We were told they grow fairly fast (easily 18" a year) so we'd have a decent looking treen in 5 years or so.

However, I think we've decided to give this tree a few more years. It is the favorite spot for our 6 year old. He just loves climbing the thing, and it's the only really shaded part of our yard. We'll try and fix the root issue per the arborists suggestions and see how it does this year. If it's worse in a year or two, then we'll swap it out. If it's looking better, we may consider a slow pruning of the weak side of the fork. The one arborists said we might have some luck slowing pruning it back over a several year period and see if the other 'half' of the tree will then fill out the rest. And, if not, no biggie to just knock her down altogether.

It's so frustrating the the previous owners could have just lopped off the forked trunk some 15 years ago or so. ;o)

 

[Darrel]

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's opinion of the Hybridized Poplars? Those always seemed to be a popular pick of the suburban landscaper to get something growing fast. However, I always thought they weren't very long-lasting trees. The nursery here said they've made a lot of improvements with the new hybridized varieties. Any thoughts?

 

[Thillmaine]

Tree

Red Maple, 'Aristocrat' Callery Pear, Japenese Lilac Tree, Pin Oak, Red, its a bit hard to say when you havent posted the space it can fill with time. But regardless, red and pin oak are both tolerant of heavy soils, and are magnificent trees. From an arborists POV a pink oak is about the gayest thign in the world to attempt to prune due to the spurs that are on all the branches.

 

[Dixie1]

if you do decide on an 'Autumn Blaze' maple, make sure to select one with good branching structure. Avoid a tree with a lot of v-shaped crotch angles. Select one with u-shaped angles instead. This will prevent splitting from ice or wind in the future. here is an illustration, the pic on the right is good, the one on the left is what you want to avoid. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/structissues3.html