What poison for badly stressed pecan?

[Canyon Angler]

Thanks, guys, again. Any opinions on whether bark tracing would be appropriate for my tree? (The detached-but-still-attached bark is pretty extensive, and it would probably take me a full day or three to trace, considering that I don't even know how to climb yet! )

 

[Ekka]

Yeah, with the chainsaw method about 1" above ground!

 

[treeseer]

might be way late for that. if you wna tto help your tree look to the roots.

 

[Dixie1]

thanks for the info on euclaptyus oil, that is fantastic!

 

[BayouTree]

No real need to leave the deadwood in the tree. I would have the central leader removed down to where the next lateral branch is alive, or it will probably come down on it's own soon enough. Bark tracing isn't really going to solve any problems there, but it would be good to remove the loose bark being careful not to cut into any living tissue. I wouldn't worry about trying to get really close to the living tissue when cutting back. Better to not damage the wound wood if there is any forming. It didn't look from the photos like the detached bark was alive and transporting anything to living parts of the tree.
I think a preventative borer treatment is a good idea. I like permethrin, but it looks like you have a lot of good sugestions from the thread.

Good luck

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You're all so obsessed with insects! And everyone is so sure they harm the tree. It makes no sense.
Why not obsess about birds and snakes too? Oh, and squirrels, they have teeth!
Guy now has the poor tree owner taking a chainsaw to the tree, to strip off all the nasty bark! What the heck?!?!? This is crazy!

Hire an arborist to remove the dead wood and inspect the tree for safety. Other than that, the best thing to do is stay away from the tree and this site so you don't come up with any more crazy treatment protocols!

 

[Dixie1]

you jokingly mentioned squirrels, but they have done some serious damage to several of our mature oaks and smaller trees. they have removed the bark at the branch unions and have completely girdled limbs. some limbs have broken due to being so weakened. pretty crazy a tiny squirrel can do so much damage. so bad in fact, we did live trap several and relocate them.

 

[treeseer]

you jokingly mentioned squirrels, but they have done some serious damage to several of our mature oaks and smaller trees. .

And you mention birds; I have seen sapsucker damage disfiguring and fatal.

Repelling insects from wounded trees is good arboricuture. Invigorating roots is better arboriculture.

Please don't trace bark with a chainsaw unless there is a clear need and the operator is highly experienced.

OK Mike? :taped:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

No. There is no evidence that bark hurts trees. do not remove bark, tight or loose.
Exposed wood does not attract harmful insects, except in rare, specific circumstances.
Spraying insecticides and repellents is harmful to the ecosystem.
Bark tracing is a placebo for the tree owner and consulting arborist, who both feel bad because the best thing to do is nothing, except the safety measures mentioned (inspect and deadwood).
Remember when your mommy would tell you not to pick at your scab? That good old advice works here too.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

you jokingly mentioned squirrels, but they have done some serious damage to several of our mature oaks and smaller trees. they have removed the bark at the branch unions and have completely girdled limbs. some limbs have broken due to being so weakened. pretty crazy a tiny squirrel can do so much damage. so bad in fact, we did live trap several and relocate them.

Then by everyones logic, you should kill all animals that get within 100 feet of your tree. You could spray the area with some super highly toxic poison that would slowly kill any person or animal that gets near it.
Instead, it sounds like you identified the problem, and took an environmentally friendly approach to solve it, instead of letting fear and ignorance make your decisions.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Mike,

Honestly, I appreciate your passion, experience and expertise here, and considering the challenges facing me on this, I'm leaning your way on the bark tracing issue, anyway.

One question, though: When the bark is detached from the sapwood so extensively, as it is on my pecan, and there are cavities or spaces between the (formerly living but now dead) cambium and sapwood, isn't that like an ideal Eden for harmful insects to nest, reproduce and do damage to the tree without having to defend themselves from birds/weather/poisons?

Where we live, it's an extremely healthy ecosystem for insects. I mean, I've got some kind of borers burrowing into living BLACK WALNUT for crying out loud! (See attached photos, with what appears to be a sowbug in #1131.) Isn't black walnut supposed to have so many toxins that NOTHING will bother it? Not where we live!

 

[BayouTree]

I'm not concerned about insects attacking deadwood, black ants and the like. I would be more concerned with bark beetles that feed on the living cambium. They are attracted to trees in distress. Down here ambrosia beetles aka pinhole borers can be a real problem. I don't know if they are a problem in your area, but they will surely finish off any stressed tree they attack and quick. Treatment after infestation is not very effective, hard to get chemical to the pest. That is why I would recommend the preventative treatment.

As far as the bark tracing, I would only be concerned with removing it if wound wood is developing and trying to grow over the detached bark. From the pics it looks like this may not be a problem. Insects hiding under this bark probably fall under the type that attack deadwood or are just hiding out there and not feeding on the tree.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm not concerned about insects attacking deadwood, black ants and the like. I would be more concerned with bark beetles that feed on the living cambium. They are attracted to trees in distress. Down here ambrosia beetles aka pinhole borers can be a real problem.

This is a logical approach. You have identified an insect that could be a potential problem. We know the tree species, and now a treatment protocol can be made.

The point about stressed trees being attractive to borers was mentioned before. They are not attracted to the deadwood, they are attracted by hormones given off by the tree. Painting repellents on the deadwood does nothing to repel these borers.
What needs to be done, is to apply a treatment protocol that is effective for the particular pest. I don't have any experience with pinhole borers on pecans, but I imagine putting repellents on the exposed deadwood is not a commonly recommended treatment. Borers bore directly through the bark. They don't care about wound sites.

Armed with an identified pest and an identified tree, one can now go to the pesticide label to make sure it's legal, and to learn about application method, dose and timing. Chances are, it won't be a spray, and it won't be some random chemical stored in your garage.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Where we live, it's an extremely healthy ecosystem for insects. I mean, I've got some kind of borers burrowing into living BLACK WALNUT for crying out loud! (See attached photos, with what appears to be a sowbug in #1131.) Isn't black walnut supposed to have so many toxins that NOTHING will bother it? Not where we live!

The poison Walnut makes is poisonous to other plants mostly. It also is very strong smelling, so it may repel some insects.

Insects that bore into dead wood, only bore into dead wood. They root around and nest there. When their caverns gets to living wood they turn around. The holes in your walnut look like ant holes because they are round. Flat head borers make a D shape hole. I wouldn't worry.

I don't think sow bugs harm trees in any way.

The dead area looks like a perennial canker of some type, not caused by insects.

 

[Dixie1]

Then by everyones logic, you should kill all animals that get within 100 feet of your tree. You could spray the area with some super highly toxic poison that would slowly kill any person or animal that gets near it.
Instead, it sounds like you identified the problem, and took an environmentally friendly approach to solve it, instead of letting fear and ignorance make your decisions.

live trapping was a last resort. maybe it is me being a girl, but i cry when i hit a squirrel driving. we did try different, hoaky repellents that didn't work, but being an Arboretum we had to protect our trees. the live trapping was of course only a temporary solution. little boogers repopulate quite rapidly. our neighborhood hawk left for some reason. he was helpful with the squirrel population.
it honestly took me a while to figure out what was causing this. crazy.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Insects that bore into dead wood, only bore into dead wood. They root around and nest there. When their caverns gets to living wood they turn around.

Interesting. I must have multiple species messing around with the walnut, because the bug holes in #1131 and #1133 and #1134 are in living wood (branch collar closing over a removed limb) but the bug holes in #1132 are in dead wood (sapwood of the removed limb).

Anyway, thanks everyone, for all the advice and discussion!

Jeff

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The branch may be alive, but once the bark falls off, that area underneth is dead.
I don't see any holes in live bark.

 

[treeseer]

The point about stressed trees being attractive to borers was mentioned before. They are not attracted to the deadwood, they are attracted by hormones given off by the tree. Painting repellents on the deadwood does nothing to repel these borers.

Many borers go straight into dead wood, not through bark. Repelling them makes sense.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What borer is attracted to dead wood, and bores into live wood?

 

[treeseer]

What borer is attracted to dead wood, and bores into live wood?

Riddle me that, heck if I know, but what does it matter?

Boring into dead wood is bad for the tree, Wouldn't you say?