What size of lowering rope do you use?

[Trees Company]

I was wondering what size lowering rope people use? Iv'e seen some arbourists use 1 inch and 5/8 but i think on alot of trees thier overkill. I use 1/2 arborplex and i've lowerd entire Oaks top and all that were about 50-60feet tall and24" diameter. with no problem. But some people need bigger for the odd one in my opinion. What size do you prefere?

 

[xtremetrees]

Caution:
It is very easy to blow up trees.
Ive seen larger than 1/2 inch work well in a few instances.
Ive used larger than 1/2 inch in very few instances.
Nice to have if ya need um thou.

 

[Lumberjack]

I mainly use 1/2 or 5/8.

However I do use 3/4 on some things. Yesterday I drug it out to lower the right side of two trees that grew together. It was around 2' on the but, and was about 5o' long. We tip tied (duh) and ran the rope through a Pulley and used MA to lift the piece, and then lowered it into the LZ.


It is nice to have it when you need it, makes stuff faster.

 

[xtremetrees]

Nice lumberjack!
What did you use for the MA? A hobbs lowering device?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

He said pulley, so it was probably a fiddle block.


I use 1/2 inch Stable Braid for most of my rigging, it is 10,000# test. For most of what i do, I'm not shock loading the line, so I often exceed the 10:1 SWL rule.

You need to know what you've done with the line as well as what it will take. If repeatedly dumping big wood on a locked off line (shock loading) then you should use something bigger, and retire it sooner.

The concept is "cycles to failure" even though there is no visible defect in the line, there may be enough micro damage to cause failiure under load. Espescially in the zone of repeated knotting.

 

[Lumberjack]

6:1 MA using 2 double sheeved pulleys and a smaller single pulley under it, all from Sherrill. Hung it on top of the portty. Really easy to do. I cut a hinge towards the other side of the tree, pulled the right side till it was touching the lift side, and made a salami cut.

If I had had more than 4 hours of sleep the night before and it wasnt my 3rd tree to kill for the day, I would have moved my bowline down lower on the right side so I could have lifted it off the stump, but a when I salamied it it only dropped 2-4" (from some stretch in the rope, I pulled the bowline that was on the lift side till it was touchin the pulley), so the shockloading was almost nill.

I got the catalog yesterday, and I see that they have some tripple sheeved pulleys. That might be overkill for most MA applications, but I can think of some places to use it .

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

With "The Winch" you don't have to mess around with all those pullies!

Come on Carl, it will pay for it'self in a matter of weeks

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Carl,

Instead of thinking about 6:1 MA do some research on setting up cascading or piggyback systems.

Taking a 3:1 and adding a 2:1 on the end gives a 6:1 with less gear and quicker compression and extension action.

Here's one to start with:

http://www.alberta-ck318.freeserve.co.uk/tackles.htm

I use 9/16" double braid for most rigging.

Tom

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
With "The Winch" you don't have to mess around with all those pullies!

Come on Carl, it will pay for it'self in a matter of weeks

UGH!!!


I want it so bad!!! I am tryin to get the money together for it, my truck, and an 660.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Lumberjack
UGH!!!


I want it so bad!!! I am tryin to get the money together for it, my truck, and an 660.

Heck, it will make you the money for the 066!
(the truck would be pushing the believability factor a wee bit too far)

Well that is after you contract me for a week or so to help you learn how to best utilize it :jester:

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Carl,

Instead of thinking about 6:1 MA do some research on setting up cascading or piggyback systems.

Taking a 3:1 and adding a 2:1 on the end gives a 6:1 with less gear and quicker compression and extension action.

Here's one to start with:

http://www.alberta-ck318.freeserve.co.uk/tackles.htm

I use 9/16" double braid for most rigging.

Tom

There is tradeoffs for everything.

I either run the rope though my current setup and tie it off to the bottom becket (with a screwlink of course) or run a loop through like you showed with a link a while back, where pulling one is one ratio, and pulling both ends is another.


With a piggyback you couldnt compress the 3:1 all the way because the 2:1 would bottom out.

Whats the advantage of piggyback over standard setup?

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Heck, it will make you the money for the 066!
(the truck would be pushing the believability factor a wee bit too far)

Well that is after you contract me for a week or so to help you learn how to best utilize it :jester:

The way it is goin, it wont be long, I get done with one job, come home, 2 more are own the answering machine. Go to those and the neighbors want somthing done.


Shouldnt be long now. What would be the wait if I said get it today, when would I have it?

 

[xtremetrees]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
With "The Winch" you don't have to mess around with all those pullies!

Come on Carl, it will pay for it'self in a matter of weeks

what is the winch?
It would be nice doing in one cut what most do with 10 cuts.
I can see how it wood be faster to

 

[Lumberjack]

Good Rigging control System.

It is a capstan winch that self tails so it only requires one groundy to operate.


Runs around 2500 retail, but JPS is a salesman D) and he gets a deal for sellin them, so he reduces the price some.


I want one bad,

 

[Lumberjack]

Oh.... and it offers a 12:1 MA in one direction and a 4:1(?) in the opposite. Helps for takin up slack.

Bout time for me to head back out. Gotta go get the trunk up from yesteday and then go trim a beautiful oak that has a huge amount of deadwood.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

im using YALE XTC 12 5/8 ,with 5/8 block and porta wrap..unless your lowering extremly heavey lumps i cant see the point in using fiddle blocks am i correct???

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

arborists overhere use a fiddle for tensioning a lowering rope ..ive never used one but ..thats what ive been told

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ROCKY yes your correct im wrong just read catalogue..uses for tensioning up zip line [used with prussik]or for pulling up lowering lines when branches become stuck...i stand corrected ,like i said ive never used one ,but now ive read more i like the sound of um


ive always thought i can tension up a rope on my porty no problem

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i use 1/2" Blue Streak etc. mostly; have a 5/8" StableBraid, and a 1/2" static tucked away for extremes.




When pre-tightening and not lifting; i think the last differance between 100 # tensioning and 250# tensioning is not a lot of rope; but is a lot of help. What ever tightening,compressing strategy you use, i think the quick, topping off of the pressure by anchoring the pull leg tight and sweating in more line purchase will very quickly tighten that last lil squeeze of line more, that is so high tension.

If the technique is done sharply enough, i beleive sweating in a 5/1 compressin jig could give well over 6:1; and prolly even a 3:1 sweated tight could bring 6:1. It'd be great for line tightening/short tightenings; not as nice as a 6:1 pulley system for doing lifting though. If the redirect support is frictional, climber can give ground extra purchase, sweating in, then ground pulls the purchase over the friction buffer/barrier of the support to try to capture. A high pulley would tend to let the line re-equalize, and not 'capture' more line on the control side.


i think pretightening, preloads the line with supporting pull before the load is placed on the line. i like to think of taking a dynamic line and prestretching it to it's 'static range' per that load; so that it is prestretched to the load, so will not stretch etc. The fact that the line is dynamic covers you might guess wrong, it be not feasible to expend the effort to tieghen to load, impacting etc.; so ya just do what ya can, as close as possible. Then you have an iline shock absorber in the dynamic /stretching range. In overhead rigging; if you can get any hinge travel, and the load moves away from the support, the load can thereby leverage the line tigher further before tearoff. Making hitch point on load and hinge point considerations for the line leveraging. If the line carries most of the weight before tearoff (like it only usually would after), i think the mechanichs change. i think it changes to a 1st class lever, so at this point if the load is also near balanced on the line , then; travel on the hinge is light and easy, due to hinge's load being lightened by this occurance. Another way the job of the hinge is lightened is if tensioned angle of the rope fibers in the rigging line pull back into the hinge, so that the hinge fibers are relieved of this job. If there is no compression into the hinge area, the stick falls, usually the hinge fibers give that compression, but the rope angle pulling back into the hinge can aid this IMLHO.

Rope tension is working power loaded into the line. Rope is a powerful, flexible, almost magic tool IMLHO.


:alien:

 

[rbtree]

OK, it's the gear freak checking in.

You name it, we use it.

For light lowering, often using natural crotches, we use cheap 1/2 inch, 12 strand or retired climb lines. Next, 1/2 inch double braid (works in the chain saw capstan winch). Then 9/16 db, and 3/4 for rare wood lowering. Have fiddle blocks, 2 portawraps, a Hobbs LD, and the GRCS (shared with another tree service) is being delivered any day now!!!!!!!

For the ultimate pull line, or lifting line with the GRCS, we're getting a 9/16 jacketed spectra line, rated at 18,800 minimum tensile strength. 3% stretch at 30% load. Now we're talkin"!!

TC, if you're lowering 24 inch tops with 1/2 inch ArborPlex, you are far far exceeding the working limits of that line. It should not be used for any load over 540 lb. But I'll bet I misunderstood you, you probably meant that was the tree dbh....I wouldnt lower more than an 8-9 inch oak top on such wimpy line...unless i were letting it run to the ground.

Are you guys using a portawrap?