What to do ? Discontinued cylinder, vintage Echo

[sean donato]

So the conversation with you... like talking to a brick wall

Yep, may as well be. Trying to pass any information onto someone that has nothing better to do then argue all day is mostly like talking to a brick wall.

 

[sean donato]

Exactly

Um, no, the term you would be looking for is integral, not non removable.

 

[farmguywithasaw]

Grade matched? Its an old chainsaw, I bought aftermarket from Red Barn.

You say it runs? How bout doing a compression test and give us a number. It will take a while for it to break in.

I've been around 2 stroke bikes for 30 years, so Im familliar with plating and who to go to, etc.

My 452VL ran ok but was a bit low on compression. I did a top end, crank seals, etc and still little compression. (Not measured but pulling the cord there's zero feedback, runs though) Cylinder is obviously worn. No scoring or anything obvious. What do you vintage guys do in this situation? A replate at Millennium Technologies (if they'd even do it) is up to $320 now and you never know what you get used off Ebay.

View attachment 1120194

how about you do a compression test on the old gal see what it’s at. It will take a bit for the new rings to seat. Also it’s 44 ccs so it never going to thump over like my 2100 or your motor cross bikes

 

[Bill G]

If memory serves it was a powerplus motor cycle, cerca 1920's.

I believe you will find that is a 4 stroke, iron bore engine.

 

[Chainmale]

Said the blind man.

To the deaf dog

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

In all the years I did small engine repair, I had never known about "A", "B", or "C" pistons & cylinders. I didn't rebuild many small 2-strokes, since by that stage, they were so hammered that the customer wanted to move on with another unit. But when I did, I did it the way I did my dirt bikes, ATVs, and motorcycles - measure the piston, then cut the cylinder to leave .0015"-.004" clearance, depending on how hard the engine was going to be run. On saws / trimmers, never more than .0025". Not much 3' - 4' timber around here these days. I think I did that once or twice in 14 years in the biz. Was cheaper / easier to just buy an entire used, running engine off eBay to get them through another season or 2. We're not big spenders up here in the Northeast. Can't be - the f'ing state takes nearly everything we make!

Also never hear the term "blind cylinders" - we always called them something that included the "F" word ...

 

[sean donato]

I believe you will find that is a 4 stroke, iron bore engine.

4 stroke has nothing to do with it, nor does an iron bore. It's a common misconception that iron and steel can't be plated. Which it can. It's usually reserved for exotic,rare and experimental things that can't be fixed other wise. some Nascar teams were playing with it at one point for its higher wear characteristics while using ultra low tension rings. In the case of the Indian cylinders, there is hardly enough room to bore and sleeve them. Wear was within the tolerances of thickness they could add back with the plating process. Win, win just expensive.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

My buddy had a '87 KTM MX125 back in the day that had a Nikasil plated bore. I remember, after we melted it down going wide open down the street at 70 MPH or so as young teens, then kept pop-starting it and riding it with low compression. Took a chunk out of the piston when a ring snagged the exhaust port - scored the hell out of that plating!

Back then, a cylinder for that was $400 - an astronomical number! We didn't know about plating, or where to get it done, and neither did any local machine shops. Needless to say, that bike never ran again, sadly. I don't miss that left-handed kick starter though! I still have scars from that ...

 

[Bill G]

4 stroke has nothing to do with it, nor does an iron bore. It's a common misconception that iron and steel can't be plated. Which it can. It's usually reserved for exotic,rare and experimental things that can't be fixed other wise. some Nascar teams were playing with it at one point for its higher wear characteristics while using ultra low tension rings. In the case of the Indian cylinders, there is hardly enough room to bore and sleeve them. Wear was within the tolerances of thickness they could add back with the plating process. Win, win just expensive.

Well when you find a shop that will plate a blind cylinder let us all know.

 

[sonny580]

got a good runnin 452 here. strong saw, just cut up a big maple tree with it. Freight might be a killer but its avail.

 

[Jeekinz]

The squish may have been excessive to start with, add to that a piston thats a few thou shorter & doesn’t have a layer of carbon on top & you could well have 0.050" more squish than what's ideal (& a bunch less compression)

2mm squish.

I guess I'll base gasket delete and remeasure.

 

[J D]

Yeah, you want about 0.5mm squish... measure the base gasket when you take it out to see what you will gain by deleting it... I suspect you will need to shave close to 1mm off the cylinder to get it where you'd want it. Can usually be done with sandpaper on glass if you're careful