Where has all the business gone?

[treevet]

I do not believe OSHA has any control over self employed individuals.

But he could in turn report you for using the ISA cert. without your name and number above and below the designation. (and me as well)

 

[fishercat]

i never use a cert.so no go there.

no use for the ISA.

i'm sure with all his idle time he will find something.

 

[fishercat]

i'll get some together for ya.

Sure- send the pictures. Include your name, address, and phone number. We will use this as a test run and see if OSHA well inforce their rules. They have told me that they can fine just from a picture.

Years ago I stepped in and ran a competitor's company for a couple of weeks as the owner was getting over his chainsaw injury. He was wearing tennis shoes and cut the four bones across the top of his foot in half. He was not a happy camper.

Safety always pays!



I am concerned what you and others do in our industry. You are a reflection of our industry either good or bad. What you do has the potential to affect others around you. I'm a little tired of hearing about the workers in the tree care industry getting killed or seriously injured. I happen to care, and don't want it to happen to you or any others.

If you think this country is going to hell because I believe that OSHA and ANSI Z-133.1 safety standards are good standards to follow...you are misguided.

and when they show up,i'll tem them where to stick the pics and their regs and rules.
around here they show up after the fact.

sounds like your buddy had his foot in the wrong place at the wrong time.placement is part of safety.what did OSHA do for or to him?

i don't need you to care about me.worry about yourself first.that is all you have control over.i will die before you or anyone else has any over me.

no one gets hurt on our jobs.we are careful because we are all friends and have families to go home to.

we get trees down efficiently and safely,do great cleanups,and are respectful of the communities we live and work in.

if you think some association or the government is ever gonna protect everyone from the idiots of this world and prevent all accidents and shady characters from doing stuff on the sly,YOU MY FRIEND are misguided.

kinda like the folks that thing gun laws and carry permits are gonna stop crime. keep dreaming!

 

[treevet]

no use for the ISA.

Was referring to HIS cert...."BCMA"

i

 

[Sunrise Guy]

and when they show up,i'll tem them where to stick the pics and their regs and rules.
around here they show up after the fact.

sounds like your buddy had his foot in the wrong place at the wrong time.placement is part of safety.what did OSHA do for or to him?

i don't need you to care about me.worry about yourself first.that is all you have control over.i will die before you or anyone else has any over me.

no one gets hurt on our jobs.we are careful because we are all friends and have families to go home to.

we get trees down efficiently and safely,do great cleanups,and are respectful of the communities we live and work in.

if you think some association or the government is ever gonna protect everyone from the idiots of this world and prevent all accidents and shady characters from doing stuff on the sly,YOU MY FRIEND are misguided.

kinda like the folks that thing gun laws and carry permits are gonna stop crime. keep dreaming!

If you wear no PPE while working in and around trees, you are hurting our profession while you expose yourself to needless injury and/or death. The damage to our profession comes, in part, from others seeing how you operate and then following suit. These individuals may not be as careful as you represent yourself to be, and when they get hurt or killed, the public at large sees that as an indicator of how unprofessional and unqualified tree workers are. That, in turn, leads to public resistance to hire us, in the first place, which leads to loss of income for those of us who operate in full compliance. Where you, personally, are concerned, or should be, is that your failure to wear PPE can turn a minor bump on the helmet to a major head injury which may put you out of commission temporarily or permanently and deprive that family of yours, that you profess to care about so much, of its major breadwinner.

FWIW, wearing no helmet while you do tree work is the mark of one sorely lacking in brains. Accidents happen, and there is not a worker who lives who is so smart or so careful as to eliminate the absolute possibility that an accident may happen on his/her job site.

"no one gets hurt on our jobs." ---The proverbial last words.

 

[ropensaddle]

If you wear no PPE while working in and around trees, you are hurting our profession while you expose yourself to needless injury and/or death. The damage to our profession comes, in part, from others seeing how you operate and then following suit. These individuals may not be as careful as you represent yourself to be, and when they get hurt or killed, the public at large sees that as an indicator of how unprofessional and unqualified tree workers are. That, in turn, leads to public resistance to hire us, in the first place, which leads to loss of income for those of us who operate in full compliance. Where you, personally, are concerned, or should be, is that your failure to wear PPE can turn a minor bump on the helmet to a major head injury which may put you out of commission temporarily or permanently and deprive that family of yours, that you profess to care about so much, of its major breadwinner.

FWIW, wearing no helmet while you do tree work is the mark of one sorely lacking in brains. Accidents happen, and there is not a worker who lives who is so smart or so careful as to eliminate the absolute possibility that an accident may happen on his/her job site.

"no one gets hurt on our jobs." ---The proverbial last words.

While I agree and wear my ppe almost to perfection there are times when the hh falls off and I chose to not pull it back up. There are times when I refuse to wear my chaps because of heat which is a bigger threat to me personally. I started in this biz before they were mandatory and provide them to anyone using my saws but summer here and they stay in the shade neatly folded.

 

[GlenWimpy]

While I agree and wear my ppe almost to perfection there are times when the hh falls off and I chose to not pull it back up. There are times when I refuse to wear my chaps because of heat which is a bigger threat to me personally. I started in this biz before they were mandatory and provide them to anyone using my saws but summer here and they stay in the shade neatly folded.

I live and work in Memphis , I've never seen anyone in a pair of chaps , I have seen a few Line clearance company's wearing a hard hat. Climbing a tree with an extra 20 lbs is unsafe , just as much as climbing a tree with 20 lbs of FAT. I watch what I eat , and am very careful about going up a tree with alot of unnecessary items. I have seen people on TV with belts , hooks , chain saws , hatches , wedges , etc etc etc etc. If I need something extra in a tree , I have it sent up by a rope!:monkey:

 

[outofmytree]

If you wear no PPE while working in and around trees, you are hurting our profession while you expose yourself to needless injury and/or death. The damage to our profession comes, in part, from others seeing how you operate and then following suit. These individuals may not be as careful as you represent yourself to be, and when they get hurt or killed, the public at large sees that as an indicator of how unprofessional and unqualified tree workers are. That, in turn, leads to public resistance to hire us, in the first place, which leads to loss of income for those of us who operate in full compliance. Where you, personally, are concerned, or should be, is that your failure to wear PPE can turn a minor bump on the helmet to a major head injury which may put you out of commission temporarily or permanently and deprive that family of yours, that you profess to care about so much, of its major breadwinner.

FWIW, wearing no helmet while you do tree work is the mark of one sorely lacking in brains. Accidents happen, and there is not a worker who lives who is so smart or so careful as to eliminate the absolute possibility that an accident may happen on his/her job site.

"no one gets hurt on our jobs." ---The proverbial last words.

Ditto.

Fishercat people watch you when you work. Some you see, most you don't. What seperates you from the hacks in the public eye? Will they know you are cutting to branch collar? Will they understand that you carefully removed dead wood but left the canopy intact? Will they realise that you are not wearing spurs because you are pruning and actually care whether the tree lives or not? The fact is, they will not understand any of that. What they will see is that you had signs and traffic management, that you all wore hard hats and other obvious PPE. They will notice whether you used curse words or whether you paused to allow that mother and baby in a pram pass. Please understand I am not telling you how to run YOUR business. I am making a statement on how the public perceives EVERY business.

As to the issue of illegal immigration. If I had to choose between illegal immigrants working for a living vs being criminals for a living I know what I would choose.

 

[fishercat]

this is all hogwash.

customers here want the cheapest price.that is all they are concerned with at the moment.normally they want the tree down without any damage.the customer is not concerned with chaps or safety boots.most folks don't even know what they are or that they exist.

i drive around and watch other tree companies when i see them.there are a lot here.very few wear more than ear and eye protection.

what gives us a bad name is oil spills,swearing loudly on their property.pants hanging below your butt,no shirt with a bunch of tattoos,leaving trash all over the customers yard,damage to property from sloppy work practices or heavy vehicles where they don't belong,poor or no cleanup or signs of drug or alcohol use etc.

i get 99% of my work from referrals and neighbors watching us.they were either watching me get stuff down without breaking anything or were impressed with the cleanup or all the equipment we used.

keep you liberal logic cause i ain't buying it.no customer has EVER said anything to us about PPE.

 

[fishercat]

sorry.

Was referring to HIS cert...."BCMA"

i

i stand corrected.

 

[fishercat]

i don't prune.

Ditto.

Fishercat people watch you when you work. Some you see, most you don't. What seperates you from the hacks in the public eye? Will they know you are cutting to branch collar? Will they understand that you carefully removed dead wood but left the canopy intact? Will they realise that you are not wearing spurs because you are pruning and actually care whether the tree lives or not? The fact is, they will not understand any of that. What they will see is that you had signs and traffic management, that you all wore hard hats and other obvious PPE. They will notice whether you used curse words or whether you paused to allow that mother and baby in a pram pass. Please understand I am not telling you how to run YOUR business. I am making a statement on how the public perceives EVERY business.

As to the issue of illegal immigration. If I had to choose between illegal immigrants working for a living vs being criminals for a living I know what I would choose.

i do removals only.if trimming or pruning is involved i call one of my many arborist friends.

i don't spike on trims and prunings because i do not do them.with the prices these cheapos want to pay lately,they can buy their own traffic management signs.
of course i would let someone pass safely.

you gys are reading way too much into this.you won't sway me,i won't sway you,so i'm done with it.stay out of my way and business if you don't like me.i'll stay out of yours.like i always have.

 

[GlenWimpy]

customers here want the cheapest price.that is all they are concerned with at the moment.normally they want the tree down without any damage.the customer is not concerned with chaps or safety boots.most folks don't even know what they are or that they exist.

i drive around and watch other tree companies when i see them.there are a lot here.very few wear more than ear and eye protection.

what gives us a bad name is oil spills,swearing loudly on their property.pants hanging below your butt,no shirt with a bunch of tattoos,leaving trash all over the customers yard,damage to property from sloppy work practices or heavy vehicles where they don't belong,poor or no cleanup or signs of drug or alcohol use etc.

i get 99% of my work from referrals and neighbors watching us.they were either watching me get stuff down without breaking anything or were impressed with the cleanup or all the equipment we used.

keep you liberal logic cause i ain't buying it.no customer has EVER said anything to us about PPE.

:agree2:

 

[outofmytree]

customers here want the cheapest price.that is all they are concerned with at the moment.normally they want the tree down without any damage.the customer is not concerned with chaps or safety boots.most folks don't even know what they are or that they exist.

i drive around and watch other tree companies when i see them.there are a lot here.very few wear more than ear and eye protection.

what gives us a bad name is oil spills,swearing loudly on their property.pants hanging below your butt,no shirt with a bunch of tattoos,leaving trash all over the customers yard,damage to property from sloppy work practices or heavy vehicles where they don't belong,poor or no cleanup or signs of drug or alcohol use etc.

i get 99% of my work from referrals and neighbors watching us.they were either watching me get stuff down without breaking anything or were impressed with the cleanup or all the equipment we used.

keep you liberal logic cause i ain't buying it.no customer has EVER said anything to us about PPE.

Yes. I believe that is true. People will rarely tell you that they don't like your manner of work. They just won't call you at all.

I have never worked in any business, in any industry, in any city where price was not part of a customers motivation for making a purchase. It was simply not the only reason.

If most businesses in your area DONT wear PPE then you have an outstanding business oppurtunity. You can be the only business that DOES wear PPE.

Whatever you do is your choice. You dont have to believe in basic business principles proved correct in countries all round the world for centuries. You don't have to believe in gravity either. But they both work.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Yes. I believe that is true. People will rarely tell you that they don't like your manner of work. They just won't call you at all.

I have never worked in any business, in any industry, in any city where price was not part of a customers motivation for making a purchase. It was simply not the only reason.

If most businesses in your area DONT wear PPE then you have an outstanding business oppurtunity. You can be the only business that DOES wear PPE.

Whatever you do is your choice. You dont have to believe in basic business principles proved correct in countries all round the world for centuries. You don't have to believe in gravity either. But they both work.

 

[mckeetree]

Yes. I believe that is true. People will rarely tell you that they don't like your manner of work. They just won't call you at all.

I have never worked in any business, in any industry, in any city where price was not part of a customers motivation for making a purchase. It was simply not the only reason.

If most businesses in your area DONT wear PPE then you have an outstanding business oppurtunity. You can be the only business that DOES wear PPE.

Whatever you do is your choice. You dont have to believe in basic business principles proved correct in countries all round the world for centuries. You don't have to believe in gravity either. But they both work.

Yep.

 

[BCMA]

no customer has EVER said anything to us about PPE.

I was complemented last week by a client for wearing a hard hat and chaps. The public appreciate a proper job site set-up, proper road signs and traffic control.

We seem to draw clients that appreciate professionalism.

 

[BCMA]

But he could in turn report you for using the ISA cert. without your name and number above and below the designation. (and me as well)

treevet- Thanks for point out to me this oversight. You are correct that anyone who states they are a CA must include their number, including the logo. This I have corrected. May I encourage you to do the same.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I just got this in the mail, along with my check--

I was complemented last week by a client for wearing a hard hat and chaps. The public appreciate a proper job site set-up, proper road signs and traffic control.

We seem to draw clients that appreciate professionalism.

I just got the mail a few minutes ago. Along with a check to pay for a gig I mentioned in another recent post was a sheet of paper with e-mails between the association manager who hired us and the person whose property we were working on, an absentee landlord. This is the part I want all of you "I don't need no damn PPE" guys to read: "I'm a little more comfortable going with them because I know they will use harnesses and ropes for their protection."

This same client has just hired my company to clear the slope and cliff these properties sit on, for fire prevention. As long as the city okays my dropping the trees and brush to the public land sixty feet below, to be gathered later, the gig should be smooth. At around two G's, I'll be happy to do it.

The major point to be made here, for those who just don't get it, is that the public does notice who takes professional precautions while on a given job.

 

[Tree Pig]

"I'm a little more comfortable going with them because I know they will use harnesses and ropes for their protection."

As opposed to all the non ppe tree climbers that are climbing with out harness and ropes. So we are back to talking about the illegal mexican tree workers again. No rope no harness no shoes no green card no pay el taxes.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

As opposed to all the non ppe tree climbers that are climbing with out harness and ropes. So we are back to talking about the illegal mexican tree workers again. No rope no harness no shoes no green card no pay el taxes.

Hmm--You haven't been keeping up with this thread, right? A few guys posted about wearing little, if any, PPE and how that was their right. Forget the ethnic angle. I was simply illustrating that clients do notice how we conduct our business at their job sites.