which owb to buy

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dogdrvr

dogdrvr

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I am looking to buy an outdoor burner have to pick between two. The taylor or central boiler. Any feed back? The second qyuestion. I understand that you have to keep the furnace fired. If i was planning on a vacation in the winter, Would the heat transfer from my oil furnace to the radiator be enough with the circulating pump running to keep the owb from freezing?
Also looking at the literature of the central boiler , i noticed that on line running from the owb to the house heats the domestic hot water and the forced air unit, Am i seein this correct?
Any comments or help out there?
Mark In west Pa.............:givebeer:
 
bowtechmadman

bowtechmadman

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I have a woodmaster and the CB and Taylor were 2nd and 3rd choice. Both seem like excellent units. Final decision was btw WM and CB and WM won out b/c of the dealer.
You can also add antifreeze to the water to prevent winter freeze up when system down. I added the glycol for expensive yet extra insurance for winter get aways where the stove would be down.
Hope you enjoy cutting wood!
 
rob206

rob206

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I have had a CB 4030 installed and fired since Jul 07. I have the carbon steel model and have not had any problems. I do the routine maintenance as outlined in the manual, ie scraping creosote, stirring the ashes, lube the solenoid etc. I don't know that CB is the best, but it does seem well made to me. Mine is natural draft and I get good burns. Due to the flue being positioned in the back of the furnace, the air flow is forced over the entire load of wood which results in a good hot fire.

The supply line can, and in my opinion, should be hooked up to the DHW along with HX for the forced air or whatever you have. Why not take advantage of basically free hot water? (CB does not have a monopoly on this idea)

Don't personally know if water flowing through the HX will keep the lines from freezing in the event the fire goes out, but the conventional wisdom says the lines should be okay.
 
beagledog

beagledog

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I'm in the same situation. So many options, I've got it narrowed down to about 10...lol. There must be something about cb, wood master and taylor, as I see alot about them on this site. I'm interested in Northland, but I never see or hear anything about them. Maybe the above three have been around alot longer or maybe they are superior in some way. I'll keep looking. Western Pa, also.
 
Blazin

Blazin

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IMHO....Central boiler. Alot of others are good too, I just went for the less moving parts unit for simplicity and don't regret it. :cool: Do some research and look at units that are being used/and in operation. Make your decision from there....Good luck!
 
dogdrvr

dogdrvr

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to beagle dog

Where in western Pa. Out side of Grove city here. Two or three dealers have the Taylor and CB Close. I have been cutting wood in anticipation of gettin the burner. It's not too much hassle where i live, Got lots of threes on the back 30. Lots of Cherry oak and too many maples. I am pretty handy with things so I think i am going to install it mysef???? Dont have a high lift to set it or the pad so will have to sub that out.
Mark
Puolan wood shark(deceased) Tree ate it !!!!!!
Huskey 455 (now thats a saw)
 
beagledog

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I'm in Beaver County. I have two indoor burners...one all winter and the other only when extreme cold. I still burn about 20 gallons of oil per winter but the house isn't as warm as it could be.
 
Scootermsp

Scootermsp

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CB here

I love my CB5036. I heated 4800 sq/ft + DHW used about 12 cords since mid-September. To answer your question....Yes, if set-up properly....I have a water-to-water HX with a wraparound loop. If my boiler goes below 140F the oil burner will kick on. It will keep the OWB from freezing but use more oil doing so. If you know you will be away for extended period in the Winter put anti-freeze in the unit. If you are away and power goes out your OWB will freeze. Another option is to drain the unit before you leave...I put drain spigots in my basement to empty the underground lines if I ever wanted to. Last, put isolation valves everywhere you think you might need one especially on each side of your circ. pumps (easy replacement)...Good luck and welcome to the world of saying enough to Mid-East oil.:clap:
 
windthrown

windthrown

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+1 for Central Boiler. Good dealer here, and great service from the factory, and they make good on the warantees. Also good quality steel and welding, as well as build quality. They also work as designed and they do not smoke much with a good factory supplied stack height.

As for antifreeze in the boiler loop, that will keep the lines from freezing. Note that antifreeze reduces the heat transfer capacity of water. So it is less efficient if you use antifreeze in boiler lines. If you are going away in winter, you may have to use antifreeze there in PA. If you do, use propylene glycol and not ethlyene glycol. Ethenyne glycol is far more toxic. Or do not use it and pay someone to go by and toss in wood while you are gone, and keep your house from freezing in winter. I wood.

Your domestic hot water heater (DHW) will also work as a backup anti-freeze heating supply for the boiler loop. If the boiler goes out, and the water gets cold, the heat stored in the DHW will reverse and heat the boiler loop and boiler water. That will last for a few days, then it will all freeze up. The Hx action will reverse even if you have antifreeze in the lines though. I suppose that you can get frozen water in the DHW Hx lines from a sub freezing antifreeze lines running into your DHW Hx, and it would probably freeze the water side of the lines in the DWH sidearm or flat plate, and potentially explode the plumbing. Not good. :popcorn:

Also the CB site is correct in plumbing the DHW heat exchanger (Hx) in front of the home heating Hx. The hot water heater makes better use of higher temp water. Also you can use water to water (W2W) or water to air Hx for house heating. I have plumbed both. I would recommend using Flat Plate Hx for the DHW and W2W hydronic floor heating. I do not plumb the floor loop like they have in the CB pages. I use a Flat Plate Hx between the boiler loop and the house hydronic floor heating loop, and use a mixing valve to temper the floor loop temp. Otherwise it gets way too hot, and the temp varies in the boiler loop too much.

BTW: Woodmaster was our second choice. Taylor did not make the final cut. We asked a lot of energy comapnies, plumbers, and people with boilers on the MEN site. Almost all recommended CB or WM. I recommend CB highly.
 
Last edited:
burlman

burlman

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have you ever looked at the tarm boiler.(woodboilers.com) I researched the owb subject to death, before we built our 2700 sq. ft. home. I wasn't really happy with anything I saw on the market. More than pleased with the tarm. have been heating since october 1st, till now I have only burnt 11 face cords of 20in. hardwood. and almost no emissions, 85% efficiant. a fellow in the next town put in a woodmaster, told me he burnt 100 cords last winter!!!! he is switching to a tarm unit this spring.
 
windthrown

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Tarms are good, along with Greenwood, >>>if<<< you have the room for a large water storage tank. Unlike old style OWBs, they are wood gassifiers. Thay also only burn dry seasoned wood. Not green, unseasoned, wet or crappy bug-ridden stuff that an older OWB will burn. The new Central Boiler E-classic models are much higher efficiency with far less smoke. Basically an OWB/gassifier hybrid system. No need for the large water tank for storing water.

If I was building a house, I would put in a Russian style fireplace instaed of a large active system like a Tarm or a Central Boiler. Short of that, I would go with Central Boiler's new E-classic.
 
beagledog

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I know Central doesn't list a square footage recomendation for their burners, but does anyone know about what the 4030 will handle? Also, I've requested info from them and received nothing...local dealer in western Pa? thanks
 
Scootermsp

Scootermsp

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CB brochure sizing

IF you have a newer house, well insulated multiply your sq/ft by 0.06 =

0-170 CL 4030
0-325 CL 5036
250-640 cl 6048

For example, I have 4800x0.06=288 (I also do DHW)

I will say I am at the borderline for a 5036, any larger house or colder climate and I would NEED the 6048....hope this helps
 

Marc

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Tarms are good, along with Greenwood, >>>if<<< you have the room for a large water storage tank. Unlike old style OWBs, they are wood gassifiers. Thay also only burn dry seasoned wood. Not green, unseasoned, wet or crappy bug-ridden stuff that an older OWB will burn. The new Central Boiler E-classic models are much higher efficiency with far less smoke. Basically an OWB/gassifier hybrid system. No need for the large water tank for storing water.

If I was building a house, I would put in a Russian style fireplace instaed of a large active system like a Tarm or a Central Boiler. Short of that, I would go with Central Boiler's new E-classic.

It's not necessarily true you need heat storage with a downdraft 'gassifier" though it does make them much more convenient and user friendly. There are a handful of guys with gassifiers and no heat storage on **********. I think the mod of the Boiler Room actually runs an Eko w/o storage.
 
November Wolf

November Wolf

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If you decide to get a Central Boiler, go with the next size bigger than what you need. I heat 2200sf and dhw, I have a full basement that is unheated right now but is very comfortable. I live on top of a windy hill in northern michigan and I get 24 hr burn times in the coldest of winter. I went with the 6048 and I am glad I did. I would not have been happy if I had to load that thing twice a day. Good luck.
 
windthrown

windthrown

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I know Central doesn't list a square footage recomendation for their burners, but does anyone know about what the 4030 will handle? Also, I've requested info from them and received nothing...local dealer in western Pa? thanks

We ran a 4436 in a newer 2,000 sq ft house with tons of windows. But Oregon is no where near as cold as west PA. Off hand, I would guess a well insulated 2000 sq ft house would be about the limit for a 4030 in your climate.

I estimate boiler size 2 ways. Measure the cubic volume of the house, and use the heat factors provided by CB on their site. Then double that number. Then size the unit based on that number. The other way is to size your heating by the demand that you have had with your current heating system, if you have one. Then figure out the BTUs that are being supplied to heat your house. Use the electricity bill, or the gas bill, or whatever to figure out the BTUs. I did it both ways and suprisingly they came up to within 10% of each other.

There are several reasons for doubling the volume estimate method. Mainly it is that you cannot account for heat losses due to insulation and you cannot account for variations in cold temepratures. You want to have the capacity to heat the house under the coldest temps, and the numbers used for winter temps are usually higher than that (some type of averaging). Also you want to err on being slightly larger than demand calls for, so that you are not stressing the system even on the coldest days. Some people here on AS have posted about their CB systems being too small to meet heating demand, or right at the limit.
 
beagledog

beagledog

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Dogdvr, I see there is a CB dealer in Mercer. Have you been in touch with that one or is there another in the local area? Thanks everyone else for the input...very helpful.
 
mtfallsmikey

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Just finishing my 1st year with a CB5036...very satisfied. Buy a spare damper door solenoid, maybe a spare pump to have around...
Now, it's time to...:deadhorse:

1. Do NOT size your boiler to square footage...do or have a heat loss done on your space.
2. Use the next larger size boiler than your heat loss figures indicate.
3. If using hydrocoils in ductwork, buy the largest size (BTU capacity) you can physically fit in the ductwork.
4. Use QUALITY underground pre-insulated lines.
 

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