White oak burns up fast -normal?

[blacklocst]

Split it small and good will to all. I too have an EPA stove and it puts out much much more betterer heat when I take the splits and split in two or three.

 

[theswampthing]

I'm not real impressed with mine. Have to mess with it too much to keep a steady temp and burn. Tried a million different ways to run it. Just not what I'm used to, I guess, because it does work as advertised. I'm used to the wood stoves I grew up with. Old Boss's and Huntsman's that you filled 2 or 3 times a day and didn't really have to fiddle with. I'm going to have to agree with Ole' Spider here.

 

[oldspark]

Its as if spidy has crawled into my head and has been operating my Summit for the last 3 years.
How ever they can and do work very well for some people but the stoves seem to be picky, many with smaller houses and in a warmer climate then I have never even see the problems I do.
My old stove had a 4.25 cubic foot fire box and it put out so much more heat then the Summit that I cant even begin describe the difference.
As spidy said no hassle burning, high heat output when I needed it and no problem with overnight fires.
With dry wood and good burning practices can burn fairly clean.
But with all that I plan on installing a device to control the secondary air so not ready to give up yet but this very cold winter has me wondering.

 

[Whitespider]

I find white oak to be one of those woods that is better burnt in the day when you are around so you can fiddle with air settings as the wood wants.

No need for that in my traditional, old style (that worked for 200 years), smoke dragon firebox... I just toss it in and forget about it.

Always some tradeoff with one system wanting one thing and another part of it wanting something else.

Of course there is... everything in life is a trade-off. Comfort and convenience are sometimes one-'n'-the-same, sometimes they're not. Yeah, it's a real convenience to have a sparkling clean chimney all the time, but I ain't gonna' trade comfort for it... besides, being able to load the box, slam the door and forget it is one hell of a lot more convenient for me than a spotless chimney‼

Some of us are very pleased with them.

As well you should be... after all, you payed good money for them.

....it does work as advertised.

Well now... that there says more than all my words combined.
My bet is there ain't a single owner out there realizing near the "fuel efficiency" stated in the advertizing... nor the BTU output‼
If you look at the specs for my Spectrum...

• Efficiency - 81.6%
• BTU output (EPA) - 36,000
• BTU output (cordwood) - 72,000

That's one hell of a discrepancy don't ya' think?? In a lab it produces 36,000... but hey, don't ya' worry 'bout it, we promise it will produce 72,000 in the real world.
Yeah, sure it will... right up until the secondary burn stops... maybe for an hour, maybe even 1½ hours... after that... well... your screwed.
And why ain't there a "cordwood" (real world) efficiency rating?? I'll tell ya' why... because the EPA testing got that bogus 81.6%, burning boards, through a complete burn cycle, in a lab‼ And take special notice that 81.6% only produced 36,000 BTUs‼ (per hour? average? peak? ? ? ?)

...I plan on installing a device to control the secondary air so not ready to give up yet...

Good luck... I tried it... the problem is in the primary air (the door airwash), not so much the secondary... it comes in the top of the firebox. That's a stupid place for primary air... but necessary to protect the stupid glass door and pass EPA certification. I even disconnected the secondary from the primary to control them separately, modified them so I could completely shut down either/or. It was a huge friggin' waste of my time... just like the stove itself.
*

 

[Chris-PA]

Its as if spidy has crawled into my head and has been operating my Summit for the last 3 years.
How ever they can and do work very well for some people but the stoves seem to be picky, many with smaller houses and in a warmer climate then I have never even see the problems I do.
My old stove had a 4.25 cubic foot fire box and it put out so much more heat then the Summit that I cant even begin describe the difference.
As spidy said no hassle burning, high heat output when I needed it and no problem with overnight fires.
With dry wood and good burning practices can burn fairly clean.
But with all that I plan on installing a device to control the secondary air so not ready to give up yet but this very cold winter has me wondering.

How big is the firebox in the Summit?

 

[513yj]

Maybe try to listen for some moisture sizzle. I had unsplit red oak rounds that didn't completely dry after 5 years in a barn.

 

[Whitespider]

Summit -

• Efficiency - 80.5%
• Heat Output (EPA) - 38,500 BTU
• Heat Output (Cord Wood) - 99,000 BTU
• Firebox Size - 3.0 cu.ft.

 

[Chris-PA]

OK, so 4.25 cu. ft. stove with a secondary combustion system might be expected to have an increased output when the secondary burn is active, and otherwise behave like a traditional box of that size. Of course that depends on how it is designed and what kind of air controls it has. The smaller one is not going to hold as much fuel.

 

[oldspark]

We sent this thread in a different direction, sorry to the OP for that.
Maybe you saved me some wasted time spidey but there is air coming in down below on my Summit, the boost air in front at the bottom of the stove comes in at floor level on the fire box.
I do agree with every thing you say spidey and the reason is I have been burning the Summit for 3 long years.

 

[oldspark]

OK, so 4.25 cu. ft. stove with a secondary combustion system might be expected to have an increased output when the secondary burn is active, and otherwise behave like a traditional box of that size. Of course that depends on how it is designed and what kind of air controls it has. The smaller one is not going to hold as much fuel.

I will try and not make a long story longer.
Nashua was just a simple baffled stove but the heated air blew through the hollow baffle so a ton of heat came off the fan blown air. Just 2 screw type air inlets on the door.
Installed the stove when the house was under construction in 1980 and that stove heated the house when it was no where near as tight as it is now and did it well.
As spidey says no fuss, put wood in and set the air controls so the flue temps stayed in line and you are done until next load.
I was given a large dose of Kool Aid and figured the Summit would work well as the Nashua was very rarely loaded full.
Now you sorrta know why they got tired of me on Hearth.

 

[Whitespider]

Chris-PA
What EPA certified wood stove has a 4¼³ft. firebox?? I ain't sayin' it don't exist... but holy cow man, what does it cost?? I don't think the firebox in my DAKA furnace is even that big, and I only utilize 'bout 65% of it most of the time (it holds 25" wood, and I cut everything to 16"). No, I don't think you can assume a an EPA box will "otherwise behave like a traditional box of that size" at any time. The box I had before the Spectrum was approximately the same size, deeper, but narrower... it held 20" wood so I didn't utilize all of it either, but I used all of the Spectrum's capacity. The old box heated at least 3-times better.

oldspark
My Spectrum has the "boost" air also... very little air comes in there. That's where I drilled more holes trying to increase lower air flow... didn't work.

I was given a large dose of Kool Aid and figured the Summit would work well as the Nashua was very rarely loaded full.

I posted this in another thread a while back... long story short this time.
A few years ago mom decided she wanted to replace the old, black, cast iron, pre-EPA stove with one that was prettier and had a glass door (so she watch the fire). Dad called the local stove dealer (a friend of his)... he came out to have a look and give dad a price for the swap-out. The guy pulled dad out of mom's earshot and told him to keep what he had... told dad they didn't make 'em like that anymore and he'd extremely unhappy with any of the new(er) stoves... L-O-L... That came straight from a store owner/dealer‼ (without the Kool-Aid attached)
Mom didn't get her new stove... she still apologizes for that "ugly" thing sitting in her livingroom... L-O-L ‼
*

 

[oldspark]

Thanks spidey, I have been thinking about buying a Nashua N18 because it has a 6 inch flue, other wise its a smaller version of my N 24.
I know some people don't want to hear it but you speak the truth and some times the truth hurts.
Live and learn I guess.

 

[Chris-PA]

I will try and not make a long story longer.
Nashua was just a simple baffled stove but the heated air blew through the hollow baffle so a ton of heat came off the fan blown air. Just 2 screw type air inlets on the door.
Installed the stove when the house was under construction in 1980 and that stove heated the house when it was no where near as tight as it is now and did it well.
As spidey says no fuss, put wood in and set the air controls so the flue temps stayed in line and you are done until next load.
I was given a large dose of Kool Aid and figured the Summit would work well as the Nashua was very rarely loaded full.
Now you sorrta know why they got tired of me on Hearth.

LOL - You'll do fine here, after all 'ol Spider is still here stirring up trouble! Can't wait until you two gang up.

Chris-PA
What EPA certified wood stove has a 4¼³ft. firebox??

I doubt there is one, but that was the point I was making. Oldspark was comparing the performance of a smaller secondary combustion stove to a larger stove. It's important to compare apples to apples and there are several ways to look at the "size" of a stove, such as theoretical max BTU output or fuel capacity (size of firebox).

Meh, I remember your thread and don't want to get into it. I know you were not happy with it, and others are not either, but many of us are. I'm just sitting here waiting for the freezing rain to start, watching the fire in the little Hampton H200. It's been going steady with a nice low level secondary burn for hours now. The big stove in the basement is past the secondary burn stage but it's still putting out a lot of heat, and there's lots of heat stored in all the stone around it. It won't need reloading for a while yet.

Thanks spidey, I have been thinking about buying a Nashua N18 because it has a 6 inch flue, other wise its a smaller version of my N 24.
I know some people don't want to hear it but you speak the truth and some times the truth hurts.
Live and learn I guess.

The main point I've been trying to make is that these experiences are not the universal "truth" for everyone. These stoves may not work for you, but they do for others.

 

[branchbuzzer]

The main prob with white oak ( and red ) is the high moisture content when green. It is notoriously hard to get it completely seasoned, and you may never get it down to the moisture content of other woods if you live in a damp climate without taking extra effort. Like others, I've had white oak that has been cut for many years sizzle away upon entering the stove. Not one of my favorites just for that reason, but btus are btus so it's hard to just pass it up completely.

Also from a seller's standpoint, white oak tends to grow fungus on the ends of the splits. That makes it appear 'rotted' when in reality it's fine.

I have had a bit better results cutting it into shorter lengths, making "short straws" for mother nature to suck on, but no hard data. Thinking of doing a side by side comparison of short vs long piece seasoning next chance I get.

 

[branchbuzzer]

duplicate post

 

[Chris-PA]

The main prob with white oak ( and red ) is the high moisture content when green. It is notoriously hard to get it completely seasoned, and you may never get it down to the moisture content of other woods if you live in a damp climate without taking extra effort. Like others, I've had white oak that has been cut for many years sizzle away upon entering the stove. Not one of my favorites just for that reason, but btus are btus so it's hard to just pass it up completely.

I have had a bit better results cutting it into shorter lengths, making "short straws" for mother nature to suck on, but no hard data. Thinking of doing a side by side comparison of short vs long piece seasoning next chance I get.

A lot of the oak I've had recently, both white and red, has been from fairly large trees that uprooted and fell over. They were trees on the edges of fields and had a lot of branches, leaving me with many large diameter rounds with knots and crotches. Those got noodled into square chunks - drying was highly variable as the grain really goes every which way. They've mostly been drying for a couple years, but I've been stacking those next next to the stove for a day or so and they burn much better that way.

 

[Whitespider]

The main point I've been trying to make is that these experiences are not the universal "truth" for everyone. These stoves may not work for you, but they do for others.

I'll concede that...
Yet, at the same time, I have to wonder how many of these "satisfied" people actually used a well-made, quality pre-EPA stove for any meaningful length of time (no doubt some have).... I mean, after all, the EPA regulations are 25 years old‼
Exactly what are these people comparing their satisfaction against??
*

 

[oldspark]

"The main point I've been trying to make is that these experiences are not the universal "truth" for everyone. These stoves may not work for you, but they do for others"
And I understand that totally but I was told they were the best thing since sliced bread and the old stoves were crap.
A lot of the people who report them working fine are in a warmer climate and or have smaller houses.
You ought to see all the posts on Hearth about this cold spell and people having trouble heating their houses, well I know they are "space" heaters but my old stove heated a big space.

 

[oldspark]

I'll concede that...
Yet, at the same time, I have to wonder how many of these "satisfied" people actually used a well-made, quality pre-EPA stove for any meaningful length of time (no doubt some have).... I mean, after all, the EPA regulations are 25 years old‼
Exactly what are these people comparing their satisfaction against??
*

Very good point, had a guy tell me once I was the only person who ever had a old stove that burnt clean and worked well.
EPA stove may very well kick a old piece of crap stoves butt.

 

[oldspark]

The main prob with white oak ( and red ) is the high moisture content when green. It is notoriously hard to get it completely seasoned, and you may never get it down to the moisture content of other woods if you live in a damp climate without taking extra effort. Like others, I've had white oak that has been cut for many years sizzle away upon entering the stove. Not one of my favorites just for that reason, but btus are btus so it's hard to just pass it up completely.

Also from a seller's standpoint, white oak tends to grow fungus on the ends of the splits. That makes it appear 'rotted' when in reality it's fine.

I have had a bit better results cutting it into shorter lengths, making "short straws" for mother nature to suck on, but no hard data. Thinking of doing a side by side comparison of short vs long piece seasoning next chance I get.

Here in Iowa where it is very windy I can get it below 20% in two full long summers.
I like the Bur Oak I burn, even in the Summit but much more in the old stove.