White Oak - Is this slime flux?

[defstar]

hello everyone...i am new to this site...

i have been watching and reading info on here for about two weeks now...and i'm getting lots of useful info...thanks to you all...

i'm really getting into the arborist thing...and want to care for the trees on my property the best i can...

so to my question...i've done some research and i think my white oak is suffering from slime flux...if this is true...why is there a nice sized hole that the liquid is coming from...i thought i comes from smaller cracks and such...is this normal?...or is insects attacking this area...?

i've provided picture links below...this spot is about 8' from the ground up on the trunk...the oak is very large and appears to be in very good health...

i've noticed other oaks in the area have simular spots...but nothing this big...

so if you guys could tell me exactly what i got and if there is anything i can do to help the oak...it would be much appreciated...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/p4a9610fec4dce92d82cb51cf43f2b503/f1785296.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/p20671fb6ae142f7ed6280e76a0e67b16/f178528e.jpg

 

[treeseer]

1. scrape the dead and loose rotten stuff away from the hole.

2. flush it with a blast from a hose. see what comes out.

this is not "slime flux" I don't think it's a bacterial infection but an insect invasion. you should try to get the pest out of there and post a picture of it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

There looks like frass piled up at the entrance of the hole, which indicates an insect boring around in the wood. That sure is a big hole. The liquid you see running down the trunk is most likely sap which will run as the insect chews and reopens the vascular system of the tree.
Hose it out and see if yuo can see how big the hole is and what's in there.

 

[defstar]

alright guys...i'm on it...

i don't have running water out on the property yet...(just bought the land not to long ago)...so i'll probably buy one of those weed sprayers and fill it with water...hopefully that should provide enough pressure to do the job...if not...i have some clean metal rod i can push up in there to clear things out...

i'll let you know what happens...

 

[defstar]

ok...i cleaned out the hole with water...

it doesn't look too bad...there is about a 1" square cavity in the outer layer of the tree...with a smaller tunnel going from it into the tree...maybe only 1" deep...

while flushing this area...i found little white worms...they are very small...maybe a couple centimeters long and really thin...they move sort of like grub worms...

i seen maybe a dozen of them...

so what are these and what can i do...?

 

[Sheshovel]

Sounds and looks like borers..very unusual for them to attack Oak,are you sure it is an Oak tree?Most of the pesticides to kill this pest in a tree application are outlawed and off the market where I am.I fill the cavity with that spray foam filler that expands used for cracks and leaks in houses?Smothers them.It expands like crazy and hardens.
This will \only help if the infestation has not caused too much internal damage yet but worth a try..the only other remedy is to cut it down in winter so the insects don't fly to your other trees and remove the wood from the property or burn it also make sure to cover it completely as soon as the tree is down,I would check to see what an Arborist in your area has in his bag of tricks to inject the tree with 1st.
This does not always work though and you may end up loosing the tree's anyway.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You can get a picture of the little guys and let us identify them, but you need to remember, insects in these compartments aren't always the guilty party, quite a few insects are attracked to the sap and move in after the original damage.
Two centimeters is pretty big, pull one out and get a picture.

 

[treeseer]

Sounds and looks like borers.. the only other remedy is to cut it down .

Good Grief, the hole is 1" x 1' so let's not fire up the saw yet okay?
"you should try to get the pest out of there and post a picture of it."

defstar did you save the larvae? there are some very good sites for identifying them; if you look closely they are not all the same. google prionoxystus to start.

Excavate all dead material and reflush. You can use botanical repellents. best yet as She says get an arborist on site to inspect/care for all your trees.

 

[defstar]

unfortunately i didn't recover any of the larvae...i pretty much blasted the hole and cleaned them out...but i will go by there again today and check the area again...

i am not cutting this tree down...it's a beautiful tree...and i inspected it again yesterday and this is the only spot on the tree that i found was being attacked...

this time though i will bring my camera and get a picture to update...

about the spray foam sheshovel suggested...is this good stuff to use...if i cleaned the cavity really good then applied the foam...(trimming it flush with the tree trunk)...would the tree eventually just grow around it...?

and treeseer...you suggested botanical repellents...are you talking about natural insect repellents you can get at local stores...like this...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...?dev-t=D2GPY4FLPNIDH9&camp=2025&link_code=xm2

will these type of repellents hurt the tree if i soak the infected area with it...?

and last...what about household solutions...is there anything i can mix up that will repel or kill the larvae...?

 

[treeseer]

if you excavate all decayed material you should be ok. If you wnat to experimentally use a repellent or foam tha's up to you.

 

[Sheshovel]

Treeseer ,I know a borer beetle hole when I see one sir.

 

[treeseer]

Treeseer ,I know a borer beetle hole when I see one sir.

Madam, I bow to your expert eye, and shall never question your competence in identification of borer activity. Do you have carpenterworm in CA?

Now as to what to do about them...

 

[JeffE]

Madam, I bow to your expert eye, and shall never question your competence in identification of borer activity. Do you have carpenterworm in CA?

Now as to what to do about them...

I would agree with treeseer, given the symptoms and the appearance of the hole, carpenterworms seem more likely. Among other reasons, the beetle candidates (Buprestidae and Cerambycidae, given the size) in this case only leave a hole when they've pupated and are emerging. To big for an ambrosia beetle, and all of the other beetle borers that can hit living trees need to feed in the phloem for a long while before going into the xylem (if they do so at all). That sort of irregularly-shaped hole is also typical of lepidopteran borers.

The good news is, these usually aren't a death sentence for a tree (unlike many boring beetles). Now that they're flushed out, not much left to do but let the tree seal over the wound.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

They do wreck the lumber value of the tree by chewing things up. Who wants a bunch of worm holes in their trim?

 

[defstar]

guys...i have caught one of them...

and it's beetles...

tonight i went by the property and looked inside...i seen many little brown beetles crawing around...

so i took action and flushed the inside of the hole with ortho beetle and bug killer...i picked this stuff up earlier today from ace hardware...it listed many insects that it kills...including beetles...and the label claims to be safe on trees, shrubs and plants...

so i figured i have nothing to lose...the tree is infected anyway...

i sprayed this stuff in there and they came crawling out...a couple of ants came out as well...but it was mostly these beetles...

anyway...i took some pictures of the one i caught...they arn't the greatest shots...you try focusing a camera on a tiny bug...

ok arborist pros...tell me where i stand...

i fear this is a case of oak wilt...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/p9588ce65a72d17111d7a22e8652c5cf3/f17103e8.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/p22cdfdf15a09689d1e8bb18dcfcfffc6/f17103a1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/pa09a081fb177a74297acbfc677ed18a3/f171039c.jpg

 

[JeffE]

Those don't look like members of any boring beetle group. The pictures aren't clear enough to be sure, but they might not be beetles at all. I suspect that these guys are secondary, just opportunists there to make use of the convenient hole (like the ants).

 

[defstar]

yeah it makes me mad that i cannot get a better pic...

here are two more pictures...not much better...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/p1d1c44ee73118b1dceadc085c510abc5/f170e54b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid194/pc6375bc59e77168a222c3a139b067760/f170e54a.jpg

 

[Tree Wizard]

I'm going to tend to agree with JeffE. I think those beetles are secondary. A 1"x1" hole sounds like woodpeckers have been working at it some. Then "going in an inch" or so sounds like carpenter worms or one of the bigger deep oak borers. Two centimeter larva also fit the bigger deep oak borers (although they are not usually skinny). Maas is correct about the deep borers being more of a problem to lumber grade than tree health. If this is the only hole, I don't see a problem. I wouldn't even be thinking about cutting the tree down.

 

[JeffE]

Still hard to say for sure, but those look like they might be roach nymphs. They're always looking for crevices in tree bark and such, and if there were some drowned larvae still in the tunnels, it would be a roach bonanza. Although I can also think of some non-woodboring beetles that can have that general shape, which would be attracted to that sort of thing.

 

[Sheshovel]

Those are borer beetles of what exact type I do not know.
Go to a University Entomology site in your area and do a search on borer beetles..they have pics you can I.D.yours with.does it look like this magnified?
or the secod one?
Id' be willing to make a little wager here boys if you wanna put your money where your mouths are that the 1st pic is what he's got in his tree as well as the larve..
.we could work out something does not have to be money..respect would be a good payment also.